Why is MOBA gaming so toxic?

So I thought TF2 and CS:GO on Steam was bad. Then I tried Freestyle2 3-on-3 basketball and recently Heroes Of The Storm.

There are a lot of challenges with MOBA because it is 3 v 3 or 5 v 5 in general. Characters/Heroes and levelling all takes time and matchmaking and ping across continents is no joke.

But in MOBA the moment someone gets upset, or is not winning, then the insults and blame starts to fly.

With the focus on ESports and money for items and trade being involved, this doesn’t appear to be going to a good place unless you have your own, close-knit team or well-managed community.

With CS:GO surprisingly it is the least toxic multiplayer I’ve encountered in recent times because somehow 12 v 12 and the (quicker?) map rotation, bomb vs hostage and perhaps other factors keeps teammates from blaming each other.

Then you look at the MOBA forums and the hatred continues to spew out.

What am I missing? How will this affect Epic Games’ Paragon? Have I been spoiled by Unreal Engine Forums, unexpectedly the best forum/ online community experience I’ve had in the past 5 years?

The real question is, why the hell people care about what other people say over internet. So some random guy insulted me over internet. So what ?
Ignore it, laugh it, and move on.

If players would stop caring, what other players say, there would not be any insults. becuase you know, it’s pointless to yell at someone, when they don’t give **** about it…

Well, that’s a two way street iniside. You could also say the real question is, why the hell people care to insult others at all?

Not reacting to something still is a reaction. Trolls will still troll you even if you don’t respond, Specifically in games. Why ? because trash talking is a tactic, if i can make you feel even the slightest of some emotion during a moment of peril, say a match of cs:go, or a game of hockey. I have won the upper hand and I can then use your own mind against you. Even if i make you think of something happy or nice, your mind is less on the game than it was. Therefore I already won the mental game.

Trash talking is a form of mental play and is very much a part of every games possibility space that allows for communication between enemies.

I played (american)football my entire childhood and my young adulthood and something we learned quickly is trash talking on the field and mental play. Games themselves are inherently a mental game as much they are a physical one. I am a very tall and very skinny person(genetic disorder, marfans syndrome), The coaches always put me in at center, the player that hikes the ball to the quarterback and protects him from the line of scrimmage. If you ever seen a line of scrimmage, the last thing you would think is to put someone skinny at the line of scrimmage. You use players with mass. Not players with speed and height. BUT I was really good at putting even the heaviest of defensive line on their bums by using their own mass against them and trash talking, oh boy was i good at trash talking the enemy team. I would say things to force the defense to encroach and force them to give up easy penalties because they were angered. I was much more a mental player than I was physically capable but that’s what separates first string from second string. The ability to handle and play the mental game.

Regardless of what you say, there is something i could say that will anger you, or make you think, everyone has their own ticks that triggers their mind. We are human, we have triggers for all sorts of emotions and mental states. The goal of a mental player is to find a trigger and use it against you. Even if you don’t respond and they find something that triggers you emotionally or changes your mental state but you still don’t respond, they still won the mental game. You cannot win the mental game by not playing.

Winning the mental game doesn’t win you games, but it sure helps. You’re much more likely to win vs someone who’s not all mentally there and confident in their abilities over someone who is mentally there and confident in their abilities.

Moral of the story, players like playing the mental game so much they even play it on their on teammates.

#1. Humor can help keep you sane. Try to look at the funny side and stay whimsically philosophical / detached…


#2. Try to remember too that this kind of cr@p applies to lots of gaming genres. Case in point, jump to this choice clip @ 1:24:06

#3. Got to say though, the demise of local split-screen is lamentable. With all the trolling, cheating & lag, split-screen is just more fun

Because it is too much dependent on ping, has chat window, has elo penalts; and toon/anime characters which attracts weabos to the game.

Good points.

When I grew up I played tennis which was much more gentlemanly. I avoided soccer or rugby because I was nowhere close to the physical development required (at the time).

Good “sports” points. But in MOBA I’m talking about the trash-talking from your own teammates! Most of the abuse I received when playing Team Fortress 2, Freestyle 2 and Heart of the Storm (only teamchat was on and it was bad enough!) was from my own teammates where we were supposed to be working together! CS:GO is alright because you can just mute the voice chat so if the enemy team is typing insults through the keyboard chat they won’t last very long in the round.

I think most “ESports” players have never played any actual physical team sports.

In MOBA it appears that a “teammate” is viewed as nothing more than a biological android that is there to “guarantee” that an **individual **win, level up, get XP, get gold, get fame and fortune, get money (through tradeable items, etc.). If you cannot do that for a particular individual you are deemed useless and to be discarded. Teamwork, learning, and winning **together **is a distant, distant objective except at much more elite and organised teamplay scenarios. It perhaps perfectly encapsulates the “me, me, me” i-device, selfie-obsessed, narcissistic, instant-gratification culture of today.

That’s the thing, I prefer singleplayer because all the nonsense in multiplayer is a turn-off and detracts greatly on what should be fun. And indeed the demise of splitscreen is very sad, we’ve just got people in front of their computers with clearly reduced social skills yelling all the time with no reference to how people interact in the real world.

It’s just sad, because for anyone over the age of 30, it makes the game unplayable. Maybe others can deal with it but for MOBA I’m like, well, what’s the point? Heart of the Storm is potentially quite nice because you have a good selection of iconic Starcraft heroes, and playing with humans 5 v 5 on the 3-lane maps has a lot of interesting angles, particularly with the “point capture”-type elements which are different in each map and critical to success… You have to rotate heavily between the lane defense/attack and timely point capture.

I don’t care so much about winning all the time, the battle is what’s important. Humans are so unpredictable and so creative that tides can turn very fast and some strategies even on 3 lanes can be very unexpected. Losing only makes me want to figure out what went wrong and try different strategies to win the next time. Levels, heroes, XP, gold, money, that’s all secondary to the gaming experience, at least for me. I want to see how I can help my team while having enough independence to explore the map, playstyles, heroes, abilities and experiment somewhat. Costumes and skins are fun but it’s not like I want to unlock and purchase them all at once, the waiting and earning of it makes it more valuable.

OK, I guess it’s time to admit I’ve become an old fart that can’t handle the young whippersnappers anymore. Time to start looking for a good retirement home before I forget where I live. There I can whine about the world with other like-minded old fogies. :frowning:

I think it might have something to do with being able to see nearly everything on the map as well anytime you want. Usually you are restricted to this when you are dead so you don’t see everything happening on other parts of the map. You have a top down view of every player in your team whenever you want.

Also everyone is obviously MLG Pro because they watch Twitch.

That should be a good thing.

Twitch is a scary and dangerous place where mortal souls fear to tread.

OK since I am a sucker for punishment and totally bored out of my mind waiting for job interviews to roll in, I’m installing HOTS again.

I play this game Rise of Flight, it’s a WWI Arial Combat Simulator. The people there are so nice and gentlemanly like even as enemies. It’s an amazing community, too bad its dying.

Yes, but at the end of my post i said “Moral of the story, players like playing the mental game so much they even play it on their on teammates.” I should of been more clear in that.

nowadays people fail to realize the true value of a teammate. One that likes playing on the same team with them, especially when they fail together.

I play Dota 2 quite often and I think the main problem are the underlying game mechanics.

They do encourage flame and are the main reason for the toxic community. However, at the same time they are highly addictive.

Main problem is, as a single person you are able to loose the game for the whole team. You are not able to win the game all by your own. Your performance can be very good, however, if you have your teammates feeding, you will still loose. This can be quite frustating.

Trash talking does happen, but much more subtle. It’s more like you slip a fast “ez mid” against your mid opponent. Flaming amongst teammates does happen much more often and is a lot worse in language.

However, Dota only enfolds it’s true potential if you have people playing with you. Really playing together as a team of 5 people is really a lot of fun. No flame and the team experience is way much better. So I encourage everyone get 4 teammates and you are set :slight_smile: Your experience will be way better than playing with 4 strangers :wink:

So, why the hell would someone spend their valuable weekend time playing with people who insult him/her?

Afaik the only way to get decent multiplayer experience is to either disable any means of communication or ban anyone under 21 from the game.

Mute button is King.

#1The elo system: Especially in LoL, you have to win constantly to hold your ladder, otherwise you will derank and play with less good players (which causes stress in most people, so they turn aggressive, toxic, bitter when someone doesn´t play properly). Its the elo systems fault imo. Even i, as someone who is very calm get´s sometimes aggressive because of the hard punishment for losing (like i said, mostly in LoL, Dota2 manage it a lot better).

#2 having a bad day: can happen sometimes.

#3 too much estrogen?!?

I agree, I Mute everyone before I start any MP game.

Thanks all for all the tips. MOBA gaming can be fun and addictive, and you all have laid out some very good points to reduce the distasteful aspects.

I also felt the temptation to lash out at my teammates and tried to control myself by just saying “Oh noes”, “LOL”, or “HAHAHAHAHA” when our core was rapidly and unceremoniously annihilated.

So to update, for Heroes of the Storm, for Asia Pacific you’re supposed to play on the Americas server (which can be located in SG, AU, US, or BR) not the dedicated Korea and/or Taiwan servers.

So obviously because for ease of communication the HOTS Americas server has been quite good for me. Due to some differences from DOTA and LOL people seem a little bit more relaxed and I haven’t received any abuse from my teammates yet.

The interesting thing is that HOTS Quick Match matchmaking tends to be slow so a lot of people are playing “co-op” of 5 humans vs 5 AI. This reduces the stakes somewhat while helping everyone farm XP, get to know the heroes etc. without too much pressure.

For Quick Match 5v5 humans vs humans I’m trying to focus on just one hero, a healer (Morales), I find that way I am most useful to the team and I think having a good healer on the team, which most other teams usually overlook (at lower to mid levels), can also help ensure wins.

Again, Lord forgive me, and I repent, if I myself lashed out at teammates when losing. It’s so easy to say “you noobs”, “you guys suck”, etc.

Cheers and Happy New Year.

Because they like to play game ?
I mean really. It’s beyond my imagination how anybody can care about what some random spit over internet.
I almost always read chat, and honestly, it’s always funny for me, how people **** on each other and on me.

I’d like to see Half-Life 2 Episode 3 with MOBA controller.So I can make Jazz Jackrabbit with MOBA controller(hibernation involved like in Machulski’s Sexmission) in XXII century?

  1. because humans suck.

stupid copyright infridge written inside licence agreements of video game instalation.
2)because money for next gen video games and new retro pixel games sucks.

It’s because MOBAs are competitive, even more so than other online games. And competitiveness brings out the worst in us humans.
It’s not personal and there are a ton of reasons for it to happen.
But if you get gigantic communities like League of Legends, something that doesn’t happen all that often to each individual suddenly happens often!
If it doesn’t happen to you, it’s happening to somebody else.
This is why MOBA communities look so much worse than other competitive communities.
And because some MOBA in particular doesn’t have enough backbone to properly get rid of the people ruining it for the others, because the people ruining it still bring in money.