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Only post items that are already available on the Marketplace. Should this change?

There are dozens of threads here now gauging interest from potential packages to showcasing early in development packages with the intent to submit to Epic soon. According to the rules though all of these threads should be moved from this forum to the Works in Progress thread. I was subject to just this yesterday and it’s brought me to question whether this rule should be changed or not. There is a clear different between content that is aimed at being developed for the marketplace and showcase materials in general.

https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?73646-GAUGING-INTEREST-Classic-FPS-movement-pack - ***Although this has been submitted now to the Marketplace originally when the thread was made it wasn’t. ***
https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?77646-What-environment-do-you-want
https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?68761-COMING-SOON-1-Handed-Sword-Animset-Pro

These are just threads on the first page of the Marketplace forum and these would all get shoveled off into the Works In Progress forum. Now in full disclosure this happened yesterday to my own Infinite Knives and Blades thread that I made yesterday and I can’t understand why my thread would be moved and these be allowed to remain. So I’d like start a conversation as to what the deal is with the discrepancy between the rules, the actual threads that are allowed to remain that don’t follow the “Only post items that are already available on the Marketplace” rule, the threads that moved to the WIP forum, and when topics can return from WIP to the marketplace forum at all.

Because either all of these threads should be moved by the moderators to the WIP forum or the rules should be adjusted to be more flexible now that the state of the UE4 community has evolved. I would like to keep conversation civil and polite. I think that by not moving threads like the above to WIP for so long this forum has implicitly accepted that the threads like the above, and my own knives pack, should allowed to remain in the Marketplace forum and that the official rules for this forum should be changed.

Please discuss.

I think these types of threads do have a place in the Marketplace forum. They allow potential customers to help shape the content. And where do potential Marketplace buyers go? The Marketplace forum :slight_smile: By moving them to the WIP forums, they’re going to be largely ignored, as they will have to compete with a multitude of projects (some serious, some experimentation). And it’s not like these threads are cluttering up the Marketplace forum, as there’s not a ton of activity to begin with :frowning:

Here’s a valid question, if the Marketplace forum is only for released packs, what about when you want to advertise updates you’re working on for that pack? Do you start a separate thread in WIP?

My opinion is if the topic in question involves the creation or maintenance or discovery of marketplace assets, potential or not, they should be posted in this section. However it might be nice to have some regulated process for what the thread starter is showing. It is a little disappointing when someone makes a thread titled “super awesome thing that I really want right away” then I get excited and click into it and it says “I’m thinking about making this, would you guys be interested?”

Yes of course I’m interested, but I also know that awesome thing is hard to pull off and will take months of work, which means it will be many months before I ever actually get my hands on it! (and let’s be honest, if you have to ask if it’s worthwhile before you start, you’ll probably not finish it)

If we can somehow avoid the above scenario, or at least lower the frequency of it occurring (it’s about every 4th post now), that would help a lot.

I have been moving the threads that I can when I get the time, sometimes the threads slip through the cracks and I apologise for that. I have asked Epic to give me clarification on the rules in regards to this:

As per forum guidelines laid out here: Marketplace Info and Guidelines: READ FIRS

Once I have a definitive answer from them, we will take the actions necessary to sort this issue out. For now all threads that have been moved, will stay in the Work In Progress thread until further notice and all threads not moved will stay where they are. Thank you for your understanding and I will provide an update once I have an update from Epic.

You cant just say “oh its a tuesday I am going to decide to enforce a rule that NO ONE has been enforcing”. I mean this rule has not been enforced and it seems the description of the forum encourages discussion

This is a great thread CheapModeler and I think you bring up some good points because the lines do become very confusing. It’s also very confusing because we have options for Prefixes to threads like “Coming Soon” and “Submitted” but why are they there if we can’t use them. I also agree with Zooch and Necrophob30 that a lot of content would simply become lost in the WIP thread and never be seen because Marketplace users come here to check out content and future content.

It’s also confusing because in the forum board topic page under Marketplace Forum it reads this.
“All Things Related to the Unreal Engine Marketplace. Discuss Marketplace Offerings, Request New Content, Promote Your Work.”

It sounds like all things Marketplace. Does that mean past, present and future marketplace? Also what can be classified as Requesting new content or discussing Marketplace offerings? Like your blades thread. I don’t see it as much as a work in progress as it perhaps can be seen as both a marketplace offering discussion and checking to see from other users if it would be a request for new content. The same can be said about many of the other threads and mine as well. Is it discussing Marketplace offerings and content requests? So I’m very confused lol

I’m a little confused as to why Epic has this policy on the marketplace forums when they’ve adopted the philosophy of getting everyone involved from day one for development of Unreal Tournament. Allowing people in on the ground floor allows development to go in a direction the community as a whole wants.

When you wait to post to the last minute there’s a greater chance of silly mistakes or plain poor design decisions making it through to the final product. As disappointing as it may be to click on a thread and find out there’s nothing there, it can be a small blessing. This way you can have direct input into what makes it in and what stays out allowing the developers to maintain maximum productivity on things people really want, rather than spending the time making things that many people may not be interested in.

Having now been on both sides of the fence, I can say that following Epics policy of waiting to post was a mistake.

Hi everyone, I’m reposting what I said in the other thread With slight edits to (As it’s essentially the same topic stretched over multiple threads):

In regards to “Should it or shouldn’t it be there” - I feel personally that we need a new tag in the Marketplace area for gauging interest or something along-those-lines. Technically, Things like this SHOULD be in the work-in-progress section. I have no idea why it hasn’t been done before.

Now, Onto the main point: “You cant just say “oh its a tuesday I am going to decide to enforce a rule that NO ONE has been enforcing”. I mean this rule has not been enforced and it seems the description of the forum encourages discussion” - This is because it was flagged up as a problem. It’s not personal but you have to remember how hard it is for the Moderators / Epic team to be everywhere all the time. We’re constantly on the look-out for bad behavior and nit-picky stuff like thread location sometimes doesn’t come up as we’re not actively looking for it.

However, When someone flags it up as a problem; We have to make a decision - Is the thing flagged up against the rules .etc? In this case, It took a trip to the Martkplace FAQ to find out if we could let it slide and it turns out we were wrong all this time and threads like this SHOULDN’T be in the Marketplace - So it was moved.

I’m sure Epic will personally deal with the issue that’s arisen; Most likely with a new tag in the Marketplace area .etc. - So chill you jets everyone, We’re just following procedure - Don’t take it personally!

What bothers me is people taking a rule as an absolute perfect/complete rule instead of trying to adapt/renew it to a more helpful state. The rules need a review.
Jacob-3D pointed out all the proof we needed for it so there’s not much left talk about.

Hope this gets some serious attentions soon.

We are going to get Epic to add a new Prefix to the Marketplace forum to deal with this situation.

just use a [WORK IN PROGRESS] in name of those topics.

[Marketplace Work in Progress]

(To distinguish potential marketplace assets from all the other WIP threads that aren’t and won’t ever be prospective marketplace packs)

We have a decision from Epic and a representative from Epic will be making an announcement with regards to their decision and the reasoning behind it. I don’t want to elaborate on that but in order to start the process, I will briefly summarise the decision.

All items in the “Marketplace” thread that have not been submitted to the marketplace are considered works in progress and thus will be moved to the “Work in Progress” thread. These threads will be flagged with a special “Marketplace” prefix until such time as they are submitted to the marketplace. Once they are submitted to the marketplace, the owner of the thread can choose to have the entire thread moved to the “Marketplace” thread and have the prefix of “Submitted”, or the thread can be closed and a link to the new thread can be provided by the original owner.

This decision is in line with the following rule from our Marketplace Info and Guidelines: READ FIRST:

The basic reasoning is that the Marketplace would be less cluttered by ideas and potential submissions and other users of the forums know that items in the “Marketplace” thread are submitted or have been released and anything being worked on is found under the “Work in Progress” thread. As I said, a representative from Epic will make an announcement, I am just providing an update as the moderators will start moving threads in line with this decision by Epic.

Thank you for understanding.

What is the crossover of clientele between the Marketplace forum and the WIP forum?

What percentage of primary WIP users spend money on Marketplace purchases in contrast to individuals who more often frequent the Marketplace forums?

Have you checked with the community whether they are okay with idea threads or potential submissions? What is the reasoning behind the assumption that the community cannot deal with idea threads or potential submissions?

  1. The general idea is that if it’s on the Marketplace or in the process of being put on the Marketplace, It will be placed in the Marketplace forum (There’s nothing worse than seeing “Super Ultra Marketplace asset you’ve been waiting your whole life for!” only to click it in excitement and see “Yeah… Just gauging interest”)

  2. Seeing as if it’s not in the process of being on the Marketplace - It’s a work-in-progress. So it should be put in that forum.

  3. You can’t please everyone and I don’t think that’s the plan here - It’s to keep things clean and keep the forums simple “This goes here and this goes there” .etc

  4. It’s not about what the community can or cannot deal with - It’s about what makes sense for the Unreal Engine forums from a usability standpoint.

Hope this helps! :slight_smile:

Subforums!

  • progress
  • released

WIP also draws in people who might not use the Marketplace to learn about the cool things in development for the Marketplace; And users will be diverted to the WIP forum from the Marketplace to learn about new and upcoming Marketplace material - It’s literally a win/win for everyone :slight_smile:

But this isn’t going to be any different in the WIP forum.

But 99% of people were literally not displeased with how things were. That’s what doesn’t make sense. The only people who spoke up were the people who saw the conflict against the rule. Not the practice in and of itself.

If it was affecting the usability, after six months don’t you think more of the community would have had something to say about it other than the handful of nitpickers? It never affected my usability nor does it seemed to have affected the usability of everyone else who has posted in this thread. Only HausEstate went on a tirade and his issue was that the threads were against the rules rather a question of usability.

It will; You’ll see work that’s IN progress but not currently released; Which is what that sub-forum is for :slight_smile:

Did you know 60% of statistics are made up?

CheapModeler; I don’t mean to sound rude here - But the moderation team get a lot more feedback about the forums than you do. It sounds harsh but it’s true - That’s our role - To help moderate and take feedback from the community and pass it over to Epic :slight_smile:

I feel that you’re taking this personally for some reason, As I’ve said countless amounts of time, None of this is aimed at you. This is to clean up the Unreal Engine forums to make sure the forums remain consistent, Easy-to-use and people can get whatever they need to get out of it without any hassle.

Just because this happened with a thread you were involved in, Doesn’t mean it’s your fault - And in fact, It’ll help you and everyone else in the long-run.

It’s for the greater good!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY

Then why don’t we put up a thread in the Marketplace forum and see what people say? Or why don’t you share what people have said to you?

That until I personally raised a stink about it that nothing was happening says that it clearly wasn’t enough of an issue for the staff to do anything about is what makes these “we know more than you” claims tough to swallow. If you know more than us why don’t you tell us? Why don’t we bring it up to the community first and foremost by moving this thread back to the marketplace forum and see what people have to say about it instead of letting a vocal minority guide your hand?

Saying “we know more than you” without elaborating on it any further can mean anything.