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What's so dangerous about UWP ?

Hell guys,
i was reading an article regarding UWP and how Epic Games feels that it threatens the industry. One argument was that it will force game companies to use the MS Store when releasing content on UWP - but isn’t this the same thing we currently have with Steam now ? As an indi company the only option to release a game and reach the audience is through Steam currently, let’s face it, there is nothing else. One argument was that we would be forced to give Microsoft their 30% share but the way i see it we already have that loss in place when releasing on Steam. So what exactly makes UWP so dangerous ? To me it currently just looks like that Valve will get some competition and developers will might start releasing their games on both UWP and Steam, no ?

Once our game hits alpha we have to start looking for a platform to release it and currently that would be only Steam and maybe XBOX one. Neither Origin or Ubisoft seem to have an open platform similar to Steam so i have a hard time understanding the whole case.

Best regards,
Oliver

UWP isn’t the problem, locking content to the Windows Store is. UWP applications have to be installed via the Windows Store and they have to be UWP applications in order to be on it.

No, it isn’t; Valve doesn’t also provide your operating system and bundle the store with it, and Steam doesn’t come preloaded on almost every PC you can buy. It’s dangerous, because it gives Microsoft the power to monopolise the market and shut everyone else out of it - consider that they could in future create a version of Windows where you can only install software via their store (note that they did this with Windows 8, but mercifully not in the home version).

Valve dominates the market because they were first, and at present, their service is the best. They do have competition in the forms of places like GoG and the Humble Bundle, as well as publisher specific stores, and they have no means to shut that competition out other than by simply having a better service.

Anyway, UWP is utterly terrible for games. You can’t choose where to install each game, you cannot run your games in exclusive fullscreen (wtf), and as a result, you cannot use hardware features like VSync / GSync or Shadowplay. Why would you want to release on a platform that actively cripples your product for no good reason?

Part of the issue is that if you want to use UWP then you can’t use your game with anything else but the Windows store. So for example, the Windows store isn’t very popular, so normally you might want to put it there plus Steam plus maybe your own website, if you want to use UWP though you can only release it on the Windows store. Sure, that would be good for Microsoft, but most people are more likely to just not use UWP or submit their games to the Windows store if they are under that kind of restriction.

Oh i see - i was under the impression i could still sell the game elsewhere. Is this a technical issue with UWP or rather a legal issue ?

I believe it’s a technical issue by design, you can’t install a UWP program except through the Windows store, and while you can distribute the program without the store, for a user to install them they have to sideload it to the store like you would do with Android so it makes it pretty much useless as a means of distribution.

You would basically need an additional non-UWP build of your game to distribute elsewhere.

my guess:

Unreal market is mostly made by PC, PS4 and Xbox one.
so by having UWP as the new preferred platform, Epic now has an engine that works with a deprecated technology while at the same time competitors like Unity already support the new one.
Combine that with an extreme investment on mobile platforms that is not paying off and Mono who can now became much better with Xamarin acquisition (another advantage for the competition)
and you would have a really worrying situation.

Just my guess, but it’s the only one that makes sense to me. PC gamers (expecially the ones that Epic targets) are quite able to change OS whenever they want, and the others are already in a closed store.

btw, try to imagine what would happen if unity reach Unreal in terms of graphical quality.
I love Unreal but it’s time to admit it’s flows and solve them!

UWP isn’t really a preferred platform, that’s one of the issues that Microsoft has, or really any new platform, you need interest in it. And for developers, you can get by better without it.

UWP isn’t even remotely ‘the new preferred platform’. For games, it’s garbage - and as I have already mentioned actively cripples the performance and behaviour of your game. As either a developer or a consumer, why would you want that?

To make it worse, Microsoft are very cagey about UWP and what it will be doing in future. I don’t like working with a platform if I don’t know where it’s going and what it may impose on me.

Interesting - it really doesn’t make sense to me why UWP has been designed this way. I was looking forward to it as i didn’t really understand the technical aspects of the system. For me it was just an additional selling platform - and if it would be that way i believe i would support it - as a small company i would look forward to have an additional selling platform next to Steam. Don’t get me wrong on Steam, i love Valve and working with them, everything is so smooth and they are really there for you when you need them - but having an additional option to sell your game wouldn’t be too bad. Humble Store isn’t really an option, it has this ‘selling dead games’ flavour.

As for Unity, well i made my first game under Unity - no way it would go back, even with all the money spent on licenses and assets.

Windows Store and UWP are two different things - the Windows Store is just the store, but UWP is the equivalent of the Windows Runtime - it’s a platform architecture that’s heavily sandboxed, and the advantage of it was that an application that runs on Windows Mobile would theoretically also run on Windows 8 without too much hassle.

Nobody made games using Windows Runtime to sell in the Windows 8 store, and similarly, I suspect nobody will make games using UWP to sell in the Windows 10 store. UE4 already natively supports the Xbox One and PC, and nobody gives a **** about Windows Mobile, so it’s really not a big deal at all.

UMP & Win10 is also very much about bolstering Microsoft’s vision of ‘more complete’ DRM AKA the Trusted Computing model.
So its very much about control, less for users obviously. But the same can be said of Apple & Google’s (Android) desires also…
Overall Tim S alluded to the fact that, M$ may choose to make it more difficult for windows users to locate or access other game stores.
Win10 forced updates will certainly grant Microsoft more instant control over its users and a potential competitive advantage.
Tim S also alluded the risk that M$ downgrades its Win32 API’s, so that apps written outside the UWP framework run less well or even badly.
If that were to happen, and its just a possibility, then we may end up with another ‘Lotus / WordPerfect’ antitrust anti-market type situation…

UWP & Win10 is also very much about bolstering Microsoft’s vision of ‘more complete’ DRM AKA the Trusted Computing model.
So its very much about control, less for users obviously. But the same can be said of Apple & Google’s (Android) desires also…

Overall Tim S alluded to the fact that, M$ may choose to make it more difficult for windows users to locate or access other game stores.
Win10 forced updates will certainly grant Microsoft a lot more instant control over Users & UX, and so offer an unhealthy competitive advantage.

Tim S also alluded to the risk that M$ downgrades its Win32 API’s, so that apps written outside the UWP framework will run less well or badly.
If that were to happen, and its just a possibility, then we could end up with another ‘Lotus / WordPerfect’ antitrust anti-market type situation…

It is, according to Microsoft.

this.

rape you while sleeping, aren’t you worried about that too?

“What’s so dangerous about UWP ?” … Microsoft.

Not for most other people, which is the issue here–what does this mean for developers?

what’s so hard to understand? Microsoft is promoting UWP, it is their preferred platform and that’s all there is to be known.
It doesn’t mean anything to developers if you are using a game engine, you don’t need to learn anything new.

The only thing that does matters is if the game engine that you use support this new platform. That’s all.

So what’s the problem? Exactly the same works AppStore and anyone have problem with Apple decisions…

Well, for me it is really just the question if i can have a built of my game both for Steam and UWP without having any big overhead in preparing special builds. If i would release my game on the Windows Store truely depends on the amount of overhead i’ll be getting. For now at least it doesn’t matter if there is a Windows Store or not - they simply do not have the audience, 99% of PC Gamers are using Steam so that’s where you need to sell your game - as simple as that. I don’t see how UWP will generate growth if they limit your game by being exclusively sold on the Windows Store. My biggest issue with MS is their overhead on legal paperwork, getting your game onto XBOX1 is quite a process.

Nah they will not rape you in sleep instead they will do this again: wiki: “NSAKEY”
And if they have monopoly you will be unable to do anything about it, your hardware will comply with what M$ demands or producers go out of market, so basically moment M$ gets monopoly you will have backdoors embdeded in bios. Well there are some already, but none is mandatory to run all of your software.
Also they would not fight like apple is trying: The Golden Key: FBI vs Apple iPhone - Computerphile
instead they happily add (and i am almost sure added it already several times) new NSAKEY just better hidden this time.

Watch that computherophile move, it explains why this **** is bad for everybody, even for those that have nothing to hide. I personally would love to keep my visa numbers and passwords to myself only. Not potentially open to every organization including criminal ones, as that movie explains.

ps.
I really hope that windows monopoly for gaming os will be broken. Microsoft with their attitude deserves windows to be pushed back to work and office only. It is where they belong corporate western world, not everybodys PC.