Long time community member here and I want to take some time to let you know about a game I’m developing. I’ve been working on a proof of concept to really show, rather than just talk about, the idea, and it’s now ready to share. I’m looking to bring the full design into reality with the help of the gaming community.
The game is called Torn Valley, and it’s being created by Donkey Kwon Games (.com). It’s a modern, post-apocalyptic, totally redefined take on the MMORPG genre and set in real-world locations. I don’t want to make this post too huge with descriptions and “why its different” etc because too much text in one place can overwhelm. All those questions and more can be found on the website!
Check out the Kickstarterpage for lots of info, screenshots and a ton of video footage of actual game-play! Keep in mind its all in pre-alpha at the moment wit lots of place-holders and custom spliced animations etc to get the results I wanted, but its meant to give an idea of the concept.
If you like what you see, please help support further development by spreading the word and also by backing the game!
Questions and feedback are welcome for sure.
Thanks a lot guys.
Luftbauch & xSoulSpectrumx: Hey guys, first of all thanks for checking out the page! I appreciate all feedback, but I suppose I can’t expect everyone to read everything thoroughly so I’ll be happy to correct some of your statements for you.
I’m very unclear as to where you got that we were asking for anywhere near 9mil. There is 9mil on the stretch goals sure and its the **final **stretch goal, that’s pretty standard in crowd funding campaigns to cap the final stretch goal pretty high from the asking amount. It shows what CAN be done but will most likely not be at launch. So the asking amount is what we’re actually asking for, that’s the goal and it’s 1.3mCAD, which is less than 1mUSD. If there is some section of the page where its unclear what the asking amount is, please highlight it for me and I’ll have it fixed immediately. Seriously, don’t want any confusion about that!
What we’re trying to raise is a small amount of money considering the scale of game we’re creating and that is true by most, if not all standards. If your opinion is otherwise there’s nothing wrong with that and you’re welcome to it. Lastly, it’s stated many times that many of the visuals are place holders to show off the gameplay and the development was all done from scratch, there are no lies in our campaign and there is no scam here.
Once again, I appreciate your feedback as well as others here and I understand you don’t support this project or this game, that’s absolutely fine. But I have worked my tail off for the past few months building out all of the features you see and much more than that so your unfounded accusations and assumptions aren’t called for at all. Please be respectful and keep things civil shall we, this community is fantastic, so lets keep it that way!
The goal really is to bring a new kind of online experience to gamers. In my opinion, the “DayZ” we should have gotten! If you like the idea at all, would very much appreciate the support in the campaign (after all you’re not charged at all unless we make our asking amount) , at the very least help spread the word!
If you’re just here for moral support, that’s awesome too… thanks again.
We’re getting a good feedback and ratio from people that see the site to the amount that back it(what we anticipated), unfortunately we just can’t get the word out to enough people. The main issue is that enough people just aren’t seeing it!
I cant beleive that someone actually backed 6500… The Material is no where near a proper announcment.
The trailer Material i saw uses lots of scenes from enviroment bundles and that makes a clear difference in style.
You definitly did not redefine anything since almost all of the features are already mostly in DayZ, ARK or Arma.
Yea sure that you release the game as FullGame, early access is for noobs. XD how do you plan on testing this giant thing?
A 5 year subscription on a game that will not even have aerly access? Alright im out cya.
Ah here we go… WTF early access if you pay 30! But i thought you dont have early access? At least not a tiny bit?
I could easily progress since you gave so much space for errors at such an early stage.
Im sry if that is rude but i cant believe people are buying this. There are like 100 better progressed games outside with a far more better material and arguments then this.
I have some things that could help:
rework the entire kickstarter program
rework the material, one style one game.
theory does not matter if you cant show it off at the state it deserves
Early Access is now on the list.
the main issue is your project not people. Stop bullying people.
Dont get me wrong i like indie devs the most and im realy trying to get you some points were you can easily adjustify, but you think way over the top of the project limitation.
6500? Thats more then indies normally get after that short time. So dont waste it on bad material and bad trailer thingys…
Thanks for stopping by the site. I can tell from a lot of your comments you didn’t read much of the material on the site.
I’m not looking to have any kind of arguments with anyone here. I’m puzzled and disappointed as to why some people in this community seem to come out with heavy aggression and resentment. I’m not sure exactly where that comes from. Furthermore it boggles my mind why people, especially those selling “packs” tend to put down others that use packs to showcase their ideas and features. In one thread you’ll promote your pack or asset and in the next condemn others for using them. Crazy. It’s mentioned many times in the text(edit: of our Kickstarter) that the graphics are there as place-holders, that’s what those are for.
Anyway, you’re partially right in that you can find elements of our game in Arma, Ark, DayZ, Last Of Us, H1Z1, Dead Rising blah blah blah. But you can also find many elements that aren’t in them. But the point here is to bring the elements missing from one to the other into one playable game. I could be wrong(I’m not), but I haven’t yet seen anyone successfully play Ark with someone who is playing DayZ and connect to the same servers and merge the games.
Again, for early access and testing, you obviously read very little other than the rewards section, what you see in the videos is fully playable both SP and MP(not using steam) right now. It’s written VERY clearly in the FAQ that there will be an alpha testing phase as early as March 2016 and steady releases leading up to the final release date. The difference between that and DayZ style “early access” is that we aren’t charging you $30 - $60 to play the betas.
Before you jump up and say, “but you don’t get access to the betas without backing, so you ARE charging!” Backing a game isn’t CHARGING people for the game, backing a game is supporting the development of a game you want to play and have a say in. Without the backing there would be no game. DayZ didn’t get backing from the community, they developed a beta and charged people to play the beta. Because of this model, the game is completely falling apart. I’m sure they ran out of development budget long ago, very few new buyers and the current population is dwindling, due to lack of players, zombies, content and well…game. I doubt they will ever release the full game because they won’t make any money from it. 3 million people that wanted the game already bought it. Releasing the full game wont get those 3 million to re-buy it so business-wise it doesn’t make much sense to finish it. Hopefully they do, it just doesn’t look promising.
I’ve looked at tons of Kickstarter games currently out there and most are terribly put together. I appreciate your thoughts on the subject, but I think our Kickstarter is one of the best I’ve seen posted and further to that I can’t realistically take your criticism seriously knowing you didn’t actually read the content.
Lastly I’ll say this one last time, I’m not here to argue with anyone. I will answer **informed **questions as long as they’re presented tastefully. It’s unfortunate that this project has angered you so much, I’m not sure how or why but I truly wish that wasn’t the case. I personally worked extremely hard on coding this project and presenting it in a way that gets the vision across. I’m sorry that it didn’t resonate with you! You do not have to back the game if you do not believe in it, I would never want anyone to do so which is why I have absolutely NO idea what you mean by we are bullying people.
PS: We all love the Donkey Kwon logo and funded or not, you better believe we’re gonna get that on hats and tshirts. I can’t imagine anyone that wouldn’t want one of those. Let me know if you want one!
If you decide to post again, please keep in mind I will not entertain bullying or insults from anyone. So they will go unanswered. Informed criticism is fine and welcomed, uninformed criticism IS just bullying and insults.
Just wanted to add a quick note on this separately. Perhaps there’s a misunderstanding as to what crowd funding sites like Kickstarter are for. Kickstarter is not generally used to sell games that have been made or spread the word for already made games. It’s used to fund ideas to make the idea into a reality. So of course there will be games out there that are further progressed, obviously size of the game matters too.
I looked at the Castlevania guy’ Kickstarter (long time fan) as well as Shenmue and some others and they’ve been funded for well over 5-6Mil USD and they haven’t even started yet. All they have is a few images of concept. Crowd funding originally was mainly available to help start projects for the little guy, to give the guy a chance to prove what they can do when many large investors would see it as low potential or high risk. The little guy that wasn’t lucky enough to be alive or able to make games for the last 20 years to build a huge name. Check out the Obduction Kickstarter. These are 20 year veterans on Kickstarter and BECAUSE of that they got funded for approx 1.5Mil and they’re two years past their deadline and STILL don’t have a single screenshot or video of the game. Still just concept art. So we’ve done quite a bit more than a lot of them out there. We’ve been open about all aspects of the game and plan as well as been quick to reply to backers and non backer questions!
I don’t think your intention is to be rude, it’s just always good to fully understand context when adding thoughts or criticism to any projects out there.
Pls tell us the things that differ your project from these:
Without the name of the project all your feature points would fit in almost every state on ALL of these games.
You are totally doing a clone, wich is not bad but you are telling us you are redefining the genre.
The Witcher 3 is a clone.
Skyrim is a clone
Gothic is a clone
Dragon Age is a clone
They are all clones since only one person/one group can create the first RPG ever. But the thing is: All the games on the RPG list are evolved methods, they grew the concept and added new ideas.
Thats because they are the good clones, the one clones we actually need. Noone of these developer would ever say they are redefining the genre… since they are just doing good in evolving it.
And that fact totally matters.
So pls tell us direct on point what differs your project that you are able to say that you redefine the genre?
Im really trying to get you back on track since you already have raised some money and with some adjustifications of your plan you can easily make it work at least a bit. Pls work with me.
Not quite. A good way to sink your business is trying to please all people all the time no matter what. Everything that was asked is explained. There is a difference between explaining something WRONG and the customer not actually listening to or reading the explanation provided.
I see where you’re trying to go here. No problem. First thing, everything is technically a clone in a sense, of something else. Depending on your definition of the beginnings of humans, after 200 000 years, totally original is hard to come by. It’s a good thing we didn’t say it was a completely brand new idea! The headline is actually, “it’s LIKE DayZ meets the social aspect of EVE Online set in a world like The Walking Dead”. Again, we’re combining aspects of several games and ideas into this theme. In terms of the online and social aspects, EVE would be the closest match, for the combat and stealth systems, it would be more like last of us. I don’t know of a game out there that is massive multiplayer, single world, third person survival horror, with proper stealth mechanics, hostage systems, pet systems, crafting, jobs, businesses, player built and run communities, property ownership, flying, embedded ladder-based and officially tracked pvp. Yes, many games have many aspects but none focus on that kind of world.
Anyway, I haven’t played all of the games you mentioned, but I can definitely tell you some points that make it different than traditional MMORPGs, which is the genre mentioned.
Here are some highlights from the page:
– Large online open world, zombie apocalypse survival-horror - Long-term aiming more for the EVE single-server style. Ambitious, yes. Impossible, no. (not tiny 50 ppl per server)
– Set in post-apocalyptic real-world locations - Based of real world cities (scaled but still recognizable)
– New, unique progression system based on specialized attributes, focused skill-set paths, acumen and real-world trades - Not focused on physical attributes like many MMO’s are, (str, def, HP etc…) the focus is on learning skills like business operations, social skills, operating vehicles, repairing machinery, money laundering… etc etc.
– A highly focused and massive crafting system from weapons to vehicles - not just crafting an axe, building factories for production of larger scale items like machines and vehicles.
Specialized occupations learned, chosen and unlocked based on gameplay style
– Own and operate full businesses with multiple branches, such as shops, banks, restaurants, medical facilities, etc., in safe and non-safe zones
– Buy, sell, rent and create homes and structures in safe and non-safe zones
– Hunting and tracking systems, controllable pets, marriage, communities/factions with other players
– Stealth mechanics, stealth kills and hostage systems
– Participate in officially tracked Team Death Match, FFA and 1v1 combat arenas that can be watched and bet on live from the web
– Full integration with mobiles, tablets and PCs -you can get notifications, accept jobs and trades, check stats, skills, messages etc from your cell phone
– Balanced PVE/PVP environment with many focused systems to ensure fair and fun gameplay, including detrimental penalties for dying (especially for PVP instigators), fluctuating criminal levels, reputation, ability to benefit from safe zones and resources, and much, much more.
It really is just duplicating work rewriting everything here. The reason I linked the Kickstarter page in the first post is because everything is written out there already.
Please, if you’re truly interested, read the content, then read the FAQs. Then watch the videos. The proof of concept was made to specifically test the ideas overall, and to make sure the network portion was a viable option. It’s not an easy task by any stretch but it’s doable and we want to do it.
“Participate in officially tracked Team Death Match, FFA and 1v1 combat arenas that can be watched and bet on live from the web”
I will just say that this feature alone would be extremely hard to accomplish: how would you implement a betting system, how do you prevent exploits, what system will you use to achieve arenas that can be streamed from the web, how are these matches “officially tracked”, how will you accept, hold and pay out payments from users and also do it all legally with the required gambling licences… the list goes on! I would honestly get all of this stuff working and show it off in a video before asking for large sums of money that may not actually result in what you are promising.
I’m a fan of Open World Action Survival Horror Genre and have been inspired to develop one myself. I commend you for the amount of effort put into the Torn Valley. There is enough game-play in the video to convey intent and similarity to other Open World Zombie Survival Games. I appreciate the multiple monetization models planned as a proponent of cash-driven skill based gaming. I’m interested in participating in the Kickstarter funding.
I feel that as a Game Developer with no track record (and a game that will be compared to DayZ), the goal is set too high/time too short. The Castlevania and Shenmue Team raised large pledges due to an established Fan-base built over 15 years+. Starting small and incrementally extending to scale with momentum would have been a *sensible *strategy, and very encouraging to me as a backer.
I also think that the goal is set too high. The highest stretchgoal is ridiculous, I would leave that out… probably the 2nd highest one as well.
However to me the Kickstarter page itself looks very good. I mean it’s a Zombie Survival Game… what were you guys expecting?
Good luck with the campaign , with this high goal you’re gonna need it!
Thanks for checking out the site and thanks for the feedback!
I understand about the Shenmue and Castlevania guys, of course they already have a following. It’s both awesome and kind of terrible at the same time. Awesome they’ll be putting out another project but It’s probably one of the reasons those guys shouldn’t actually be on Kickstarter, it over shadows everyone else and they could legitimately get real investors and publishers on board without a significant effort. I think one of the biggest oversights on this project so far was thinking that Kickstarter was still what it was when it first launched. It is what it is though.
If you’re genuinely interested, please do participate in both the funding and the project as it develops. I do of course understand the reservations and let me try to address some of those below. Before I do though, I’ll mention from the feedback here I think perhaps the overall launch strategy presented on the Kickstarter isn’t as clear as initially thought. I put a lot of time and effort into showing and explaining through text, video and images how this game is and will differ from DayZ and H1Z1 and so on. So much so that perhaps the launch strategy and high level development plan isn’t really coming across so well. I can believe that. I’ll put together a publicly presentable higher level plan and show more of that this weekend and perhaps shine some more light on it. For a quick note though, the plan IS and always has been to start small and grow the game. Due to the lack of funds and start-up resources, the entire endeavour is to be more of an organic approach but with clear end goals set.
As you mentioned what you see in the videos is similar to open world survival games now and that is true. I could send you a build and we could connect to each other and shoot zombies as they spawn in waves, craft some bombs and weapons, kill each other and respawn, send our pet dogs to attack things, distract and stealth kill enemies and each other… and repeat that. The score counter in the top right does actually work, I just disabled it awhile back and never turned it back on so we could even keep score! We could also jump off the edge of maps and fall to oblivion as well since the only full map I made was the hospital, the rest of the pre-built ones and the others I made were just to showcase the features and I guess some of the scale and environments as well. The point here is that while there isn’t 20 years of experience and game releases behind me right now, I did produce something that is playable as is, just needs some content right now. I did that to show that if you know what you’re doing and are dedicated to it fully, you don’t HAVE to have that 20 years backing experience to make things happen. I use the Obduction guys as an example because they do have a few major releases behind them… and well… at some point someone has to say it, “making games today isn’t the same as making games 20 years ago.” As well, just because someone creates a candy crush game that sells millions of copies and makes millions of dollars, doesn’t mean they can make THIS kind of game either.
Back to the point though, the project is to be more organic in that the core systems/features are being worked on heavily up front so they don’t need to be enhanced, tweaked or fixed as much going forward, these features I can build in my sleep (and sometimes do during those long hours). The main concerns are the world itself and the network scalability. But getting the core features solidified will allow more of us to dedicate time to producing quality content. Not just environments but story, items, missions, weapons character development etc. The current framework that’s been built gives me confidence in being able to release something to the backers to hop into and play around with within the next few months. Mostly to test those core features ASAP. Definitely not promising anything massive or that anything outside of those features will work all that well. Of course not. The difference here, is we won’t be charging people to play that and help us with feedback. I want to make it available so that the community can have a say in what’s working and what isn’t. The plan has to remain flexible since we don’t have any funding and it’s impossible to test at the scale we’d like right now. But the goals in our timeline are realistic. The long term goals are to represent what will be coming throughout the year post-release.
With funding we’ll be able to get some server space and scale that out during those alpha testings phases in order to start building on that framework as well. Flash ahead to a year and a half from now, I believe we can release something around that time with solid gameplay. The overall scale won’t be “GTAV” at launch though, at least probably not. The plan is structured but is fluid since it really depends on what we have to work with but the goals are solid. The plan is to build out the world we want in sections and phases. For example the initial launch map is a section of Manhattan we’ve been scaling down that encompasses the most amount of environment variety while still being large enough for lots of players. The aim is to have the core concepts working well within this initial launch space. The physical environment will be built out with expansion in mind. So what that means is, we can build out as much as we can in x amount of time in terms of content and essentially launch when the concepts are working even if the first area is only 30% built. We’ll build out each phase in it’s completion before moving on to the next. For launch, as long as phase 1 is done and the concepts work in there, then players will have months and months of things to do in that space while we shift our focus to expanding into the other phases. As they complete, they simply become open to players to explore and populate. How we’re building it would require more detail, I’ll go into it a BIT in a separate post below. All phases of each major location will make up that city in it’s entirety as we want to present it. We’ll then start building out other major and minor locations that can be reachable by plane to players. Some major cities, like the Shibuya area in Tokyo when completed, will be another start up location for new players. Essentially when you start the game and create your character, you have to pick one of the major safe zones in the world to start your life.
Here’s a quick idea of the phase1 area (not scaled down). This area has a nice mix of city, greenery and residential areas and the Lincoln tunnel at launch will be the only way to reach the main land in this location. Gridded cities make it easier to use custom modular tools to assist in the builds. Plus keep in mind that this version of New York and our world in general is a devastated/post apocalyptic version meaning we can scale it based on how we want it to look in this particular game world. Exploration and survival are key aspects. We want to make as much “enter-able” space as possible. We’ll also have larger destroyed clearings of land and greenery, central park being a good location for players to build their own communities and hideouts etc.
I’ll paste some points I wrote up in another thread elsewhere in the next post that addresses a few of your concerns as well. This one is getting long.
Hopefully we’ll have your support! I’m extremely confident that we can get this done providing we do it efficiently and build it up the way we intend. Of course there will be set backs, but we’re ready for that.