Roughness and Metallic Maps not Lined UP

[RA3ID (Glowbox3D)]

Summary

When viewing my model in FAB’s 3d viewer, the roughness and metallic map UVs have shifted. In Blender and Unreal Engine the import looks great. What is the issue here?

What type of bug are you experiencing?

Publishing

Steps to Reproduce

I exported my FBX with all mats packed. The diffuse and normal maps are lined up correctly in the FAB model viewer, but the roughness and metallic have shifted.

Expected Result

I expect my UVs are lined up properly, as they work just fine in other applications.

Observed Result

N/A

Platform

PC

Operating System

WIN 10

Upload an image

Additional Notes

I’m constantly having problems with FABs 3d model viewer. It’s way ‘worse’ than what Sketchfab had.

[skfabby (Abby)]

Hi @RA3ID - thanks for reporting this. We’re taking a look.

[Remy_Work (Remy)]

Hello, looks like the same issue than on your other post

FAB not showing roughness map in Scene Inspector

Summary I’m not sure what is going on, but when I view it in FAB, the roughness map isn’t there on one of the MatIds–it’s solid white. When I open the actual roughness map texture, it shows properly. I just want to make sure it’s a FAB bug, and whomever downloads my model will get a proper roughness map. It’s obviously showing the roughness map for the top of the arch, but the pillars (which are a separate MatID) are showing solid white. I don’t see a control in FAB that allows me to switch MAT…

I think I understand the issue, you are uploading the fbx model and expect the textures to be mapped properly.
We are going to look into it, fbx doesn’t natively support pbr materials, so we need to see if we can do better than this.

In the mean time I invite you to open the editor and setup your model, with proper textures. There are also many settings you can change in the editor to make the preview look good.

[Remy_Work (Remy)]

@RA3ID

I’m constantly having problems with FABs 3d model viewer. It’s way ‘worse’ than what Sketchfab had.

Could you please elaborate on this?
This viewer is a complete rework of sketchfab viewer. It has gone through a lot of enhancement and we feel that it’s actually way better in many aspects than the previous one.
However, if you share what your pain points are, we can try to fix them, and you and other users will benefit from it.

[RA3ID (Glowbox3D)]

I thought when you export an FBX including the materials (which I did in Blender), it packs all the mats correctly–it appears it works, because if I just import the FBX into Unreal, and drag and drop the mesh into the scene, everything is perfect. Same with Blender–if I start a new scene, and just import my FBX, all the mats are correct.

For some reason FAB shifts a few of the UVs around. That just seems odd. Why would UVs shift? And why just the roughness and metallic? Why are diffuse and normal lined up properly?

Additionally, how do I ‘edit’ the model after it’s in FAB? In Sketchfab, I could go into each MatID, check each texture, tweak stuff, etc. In FAB, I see NO controls to work on the actual PBR set, environment, etc. Where are these controls? How do I resolve this issue? Instead of dragging the packed FBX into the uploader, am I suppose to drop the FBX in, and then all the individual textures? Do I zip the FBX and textures into one folder and upload it? I’ve been doing this over a decade, I don’t know how to critique you guys, but if just feels like something isn’t working. It makes me take pause and consider all the 100+ models I have on FAB–how many of them have messed up roughness maps that I don’t know about? Having shifted roughness maps or metallic maps will greatly reduce the look of a model, even if it’s not immediately apparent.

I can see you’ve got some different abilities in FAB (like the inspector fade thing), but overall, I think FAB’s viewer is lacking in comparison. The models don’t look as good to me, I have way less control over my scene (where are ground shadows or AO tweaks?). Am I missing an entire ‘edit’ section where I can control all this?

I’m genuinely curious–why not just buy or use Sketchfab’s 3d model viewer? It was perfect. They ask too much money for it? They didn’t want to release it to FAB? I assume the FAB team has a massive budget. The model viewer is a HUGE part of what makes these 3d stores attractive and useful. You guys need to hire some engineers to literally reverse engineer Sketchfab’s old viewer. I don’t want to be harsh, I just want to be totally honest.

What if I didn’t check this stuff? How many other artists have models up that are showing in the 3d viewer incorrectly, resulting in poor results? I know the HDRI and lighting is different, but look at a side-by-side of my model in Unreal versus FAB:

Thanks in advance.

[Remy_Work (Remy)]

@RA3ID

For some reason FAB shifts a few of the UVs around. That just seems odd. Why would UVs shift? And why just the roughness and metallic? Why are diffuse and normal lined up properly?

It doesn’t shifts the UVs around, it miss assigns the textures. It tries to figure out what texture should go where, but it fails, obviously.
That part work exactly the same as in sketchfab so I’m surprised you seem to be thinking it works better in sketchfab.
It’s an old importer that doesn’t support importing pbr materials because at the time there was no way with FBX to do so. Now Unreal and blender may have better ways to import that information.
We are going to look into what we can do.

@RA3ID

Finally, how do I ‘edit’ the model after it’s in FAB? In Sketchfab, I could go into each MatID, check each texture, tweak stuff, etc. In FAB, I see NO controls to work on the actual PBR set, environment, etc. Where are these controls?

in your listing page (as a seller) there is an “Edit 3D PReview” button that opens the viewer in editor mode. You will have mostly the same capabilities you had in sketchfab.

@RA3ID

I can see you’ve got some different abilities in FAB (like the inspector fade thing), but overall, I think FAB’s viewer is lacking in comparison. The models don’t look as good to me, I have way less control over my scene (where are ground shadows or AO tweaks?). Am I missing an entire ‘edit’ section where I can control all this?

Well looks like you didn’t go into the editor. I must agree that the discoverability is poor. We are going to make that a bit more obvious.
Speaking of the ground, it’s been entirely redone in the new viewer, now it’s real time, no need to precompute the texture over 600 frames, works with animations.
TAA has been redone, and works properly now (no more aliasing burst when the camera stops)
the performance have been enhanced to over 200 times on some models.

@RA3ID

Also, I really don’t understand why the ‘views’ and ‘likes’ from my ten year old Sketchfab store didn’t follow over. That’s just not right. OK, they didn’t carry over, but then to leave out ‘views’ and ‘likes’ in general just feels bad. What is the mentality behind scrubbing a 3d artist’s history?

That’s beyond my scope unfortunately, this part is handled by the website product team. I can’t speak for them.

@RA3ID

I’m genuinely curious–why not just buy or use Sketchfab’s 3d model viewer? It was perfect. They ask too much money for it? They didn’t want to release it to FAB? I assume the FAB team has a massive budget. The model viewer is a HUGE part of what makes these 3d stores attractive and useful. You guys need to hire some engineers to literally reverse engineer Sketchfab’s old viewer. I don’t want to be harsh, I just want to be totally honest.

You don’t seem to understand. We are the exact same team behind the 2 viewers. Namely 4 developers. We don’t need to reverse enginear it, we engineered it. This new viewer was already started before Sketchfab was acquired by Epic Games. And well, making an engine from scratch with 4 devs takes time.We’re doing our best.

The old viewer was far from perfect, it had reached it’s technical limits. every new feature was coming with a whole lists of nasty side effects and we were struggling every day.

[RA3ID (Glowbox3D)]

I don’t want to upset you, I just prefer honest feedback pulling no punches–it’s the best way to improve.

Yes, I’d say the ‘discoverability’ of features is a big issue. If an experienced CG nerd can’t find the options, I’d think someone just getting started would have even more trouble figuring it out. I’ll look for the ‘edit 3d preview’ button somewhere.

If it’s the same team, please forgive my ignorance, but if Sketchfab can take a packed FBX and apply all the materials correctly, why can’t FAB at this point? Again, honestly curious. I’m sure you are busting your butts, and have your work cut out for you–I hope my feedback actually helps, and you can understand my frustrations.

So, do I need to go find the upload instructions again, and walk through it step by step? What’s the best way to fix my issue? Do I need to start from a scratch upload, or will this ‘edit 3d preview’ make it obvious how to fix my roughness and metallic maps?

I greatly appreciate your time. Thank you.

[RA3ID (Glowbox3D)]

I’ve searched high and low. The only ‘edit 3d settings’ button I see anywhere is in the file conversion area, after I click on GLTF tab on the left. I think this is super hidden, and not at all clear what is what.

Also, the screen just sits here loading a model but never completes. And the ‘edit 3d settings’ button never opens up for me to use.

I assume I’m in the wrong location? This can’t be right…right?

[Remy_Work (Remy)]

@RA3ID

If it’s the same team, please forgive my ignorance, but if Sketchfab can take a packed FBX and apply all the materials correctly, why can’t FAB at this point? Again, honestly curious. I’m sure you are busting your butts, and have your work cut out for you–I hope my feedback actually helps, and you can understand my frustrations.

Well that’s my point, it can’t. Did you try? If it works it could help us sort out the issue. But we use the same import process, if it was better in sketchfab, it means we broke something.
Try it really, it can give us some clues.

I took the liberty to tweak your model (I didn’t save, it’s just as an example) and ended up with this.

So sure, it pales in comparison of Unreal, but what engine doesn’t? Also this runs in your browser.

In your listing page, just above the “media gallery” where you uploaded the preview and the images of your model, at the top right, there is a bleue button “Edit 3D Settings”. From there you can edit everything.

On your model you need to go to the material tab and go directly to the advanced mode

then from there you’ll see a panel listing all the materials

From there you can either click on one of them or even click in the 3D scene to select a material.

I’m afraid you’ll have to assign the proper texture to the proper channel, I’m sorry about that.

[RA3ID (Glowbox3D)]

Thank you! I really appreciate you and your time. I’ll get to work. I honestly hope with all my 100+ models, I don’t have to do this. Hahaha.

[RA3ID (Glowbox3D)]

Mats fixed. Sorry, one more bit of feedback.

No matter what I do I can’t get my 3d model upon loading in the 3d viewer to be in the position I place it. Remember in Sketchfab, you set the position of the model in the viewer, and hit SAVE, and when anyone loads up the model, it’s in that same position? FAB either lacks this functionality, or it’s broken.

When I go to ‘Edit 3d Settings’, and then go to ‘SCENE’ and tweak the location, rotation, or scale…and then SAVE it…it doesn’t stick. When I manually set the position in the viewer by looking where I want it, and hit SAVE, it doesn’t stick. No matter what I do, the model looks like this:

Now, I assume I’m missing something? I’m not tweaking it correctly? Whether I’m wrong, or the software is wrong, the point is, I’m having trouble figuring out how to do it. So that needs a bit of work. Thanks.

[RA3ID (Glowbox3D)]

OK, OK, last one. I’m not trying to be a negative nancy here, I promise.

But take a look at FAB’s model inspection here, as well as the final render on the left.

Now look at Blender (EEVEE Renderer) on the bottom. That’s how it’s suppose to look. Why is the FAB version of my wooden sign have a dark middle wood board? Look at the textures, nothing shows that the middle board would be darker? In Blender it’s fine. I’ve fixed the textures, so that all the roughness maps line up, and I removed the metallic maps that aren’t needed.

Is this a me problem or a FAB issue? Do you see how this could confuse potential buyers?

[Remy_Work (Remy)]

At the top right there is a button to enter photo mode

From there you have a panel where you can save the default view

We did this because many people were saving the model with the camera in a wrong position when going to tweak materials
There has been a lot of iterations on this ux and seems we didn’t get it right yet…

Would you be up for a chat, in the coming days?
Your feedback is important, and we don’t often have a lot of it.

[Remy_Work (Remy)]

@RA3ID

Is this a me problem or a FAB issue? Do you see how this could confuse potential buyers?

You did the model in blender?
Did you try to upload the blend file directly? We may have better results than with FBX.
This looks like a normal issue. in blender you can “recompute normals outside” to fix this kind of issues.

[RA3ID (Glowbox3D)]

It does look like a normal map issue, but the normals are clean, and lined up. The normal looks totally fine in FAB inspector, and it works and looks good in Unreal and Blender. I don’t know.

I’d rather have a clean FBX, since that’s the industry standard. We should probably solve this in FAB. If I can just upload the .blend file from now on, and FAB will convert everything to FBX and GLTF on it’s own with no issue, I’ll do that going forward.

I’d be up for a meeting. Let me know how you’d like to proceed.

[UPDATE]: looking even at the UE scene, the center board is a bit different. FAB just intensifies it. I don’t know why, even when closely examining all the texture maps. It should be only a subtle difference in tone. Anyway, thanks for hearing me out.

[JG3D]

I have had similar issues as mentioned in this thread, on Sketchfab importing an FBX, it works, on FAB i have to manually assign the textures and make sure it’s correct.

Some feedback regarding the 3D viewer, my main point is that it’s way faster on Sketchfab and rarely crashes. That’s unfortunately not my experience on FAB, it’s slower and sometimes freezes up totally or just simply won’t load.

To my eyes the models also looks sharper on Sketchfab, this is specially noted when you inspect the models textures.

[Remy_Work (Remy)]

@JG3D

Some feedback regarding the 3D viewer, my main point is that it’s way faster on Sketchfab and rarely crashes. That’s unfortunately not my experience on FAB, it’s slower and sometimes freezes up totally or just simply won’t load.

Please report those cases, else we have no actionable.
Especially if you have the same models on skfb and fab so we can compare

[CGDRSAIC]

Hello Remy great to talk to you on that note your topic that you mentioned about try and use arcane mirage to your unreal engine or find out online about arcane mirage if you are not entirely sure.