I"ve been in #unrealengine channel on freenode for sometime, and if I’ve mistaken that for the ‘official’ channel, then that’s my error and I’ll correct it, but if not ( I see a few +EPIC|j3rky , so I assumed channel was official on ‘some level’ ),
I’d like to ask if Epic could be doing a better job of offering instruction to users of profanity, because its out of control, and happens FAR more often, than it does in other similar, game dev channels ( I won’t name any , but I can, and have logs of those too ).
Our company has a name to promote, and protect, and while not naive or prudish we take common ordinary decency seriously, so I hope Epic takes offenses of these natures, seriously as well. We do as a network of family content creators, because it means something to us , as it does to millions of others.
THis isn’t EPics fault as I don’t think they may have seen this coming, but I guess its just a ‘generational’ thing that needs to be dealt with, and its honestly rather unfortunate at the very least.
If Epic wants logs, I have them, and btw I have this, from freenode’s guidelines page and given the offense(s) in question often use such profanity, its of course applicable:
" Avoid emotive speech. Slang pertaining to *** and sexual orientation, excretion and religious oaths is rarely used to discuss the applicability of those topics to your group’s activities. In general, language with strong emotional content and only light meaning should be considered “emotive speech”. It doesn’t matter whether the language is socially acceptable or unacceptable. For example, use of the word “fsck” which does not refer to a Unix filesystem check is emotive. Similarly, use of the word “gay” which has nothing to do with homosexuality is emotive. Emotive speech raises the channel temperature. "
We have several large games planned, and I hope our trust in EPic is founded on firm ground
I realize Epic hasn’t mentioned anything about any , IRC channel anywhere that I can find, so this is likely unrelated and I’m relieved they haven’t made such mention, but I still wanted to ask as it seems the abuse of some ‘words’ is fairly common and I’m not sure it upholds UE in the best light.
The trouble with Freenode’s (and this forum’s) T&Cs is that it’s very American-centric - it doesn’t seem to realise that there are cultural and lingual differences between the people using the chat. In an IRC channel with a population that’s as diverse as #UnrealEngine, you’re going to see language that you’d perceive as curse words - almost everywhere outside of the USA these words have very little meaning other than being used for emphasis - which is why many people are baffled as to why this forum even has a word censor.
TL;DR - it’s less a generational thing and more of a cultural one. There’s no real solution to that except being less sensitive to certain arrangements of four characters.
Here’s a novel idea for you…if you don’t like it - don’t go there. #unrealengine is not an official Epic support outlet, nor is run by Epic.
IRC as a medium of communication gets in the way sometimes, as meaning gets lost and intent might be missing. You can’t really see the face of the person on the other side to see their emotions. Generally people use emoticons to imply those emotions, or you just know whether someone means something or not after “knowing” them for a while (reading what they write, how they write it, etc).
Also, I really hope I do not need to introduce you to the concept of “Free Speech” that most civilized countries enjoy. I’m sure you could google it and find lots of hits to read about it.
When you think about it, the same goes with anything else, you don’t like a specific channel on TV? Change it, or switch the TV off. Radio plays bad music? Tune to another station or try Internet Radio, or even your own iPod.
I do ‘like it’ usually, but its also MY freedom of speech, to say when I ‘dont’ like something, and its not giving you much credibility, to say otherwise, its more like 'just shut up neighborlee, cuz we ‘like to cuss’ '. THat is precisely, what is coming across when you say things like that.
It’s truly laughable, but fine, that’s your opinion, and mine is mine, and we shouldn’t go disrespecting one another in the process of having them.
So that’s my ‘novel’ idea, and I suggest your attitude isn’t becoming someone in this arena.
I dont’ care if its Europe or wherever it is, cussing is still vile, imho and I"m welcome to it, and I"m far far from alone in feeling that. You don’t see news anchors ‘cussing’ on prime time, do you ?
Joe Biden used the F bomb, but he had to whisper it to the president, meaning he knew it was wrong, and he’s been answering FOR it, since… so lets stop pretending its just OK it’s not.
Don’t be smug, while I’m at it, Amigo, because no, as a 'American ’ citizen, Im all too familiar with the concept of ‘free speech’, so don’t go lecturing me about it.
Im here ‘because’ of free speech, and your ‘attitude’ against me, is proof that you speak ‘about’ free speech, but when its not convenient for you, you protest against those like me, who speak up for things they believe in when it doesn’t serve your bottom line. Welcome to your hypocrisy.
So its not as easy as ‘changing’ the channel, always. Most people, avoid F bombs, and words with meanings of ‘excretion’ as here:
Avoid emotive speech. Slang pertaining to *** and sexual orientation, excretion and religious oaths is rarely used to discuss the applicability of those topics to your group’s activities. In general, language with strong emotional content and only light meaning should be considered “emotive speech”. It doesn’t matter whether the language is socially acceptable or unacceptable. For example, use of the word “fsck” which does not refer to a Unix filesystem check is emotive. Similarly, use of the word “gay” which has nothing to do with homosexuality is emotive. Emotive speech raises the channel temperature. "
Most of the civilized world, isn’t down with such words, so I could fire right back at you if I was childish , and say…'don’t go there if you don’t like others saying its offensive to see such emotive text '.
See what I just did there ?
Not as fun, when the shoe is on the other foot, is it ?
Civil discourse, should be just that, but when you start acting like you need to ‘school’ someone, then you make a civil conversation into something disgusting.
No, its entirely generational, I never heard one word like it, growing up, not on the news, nor hearing about in other places on the globe, but sure maybe I missed something not covered. I still think, using Fbombs and words linked ( as noted on freenode guidelines) with ‘excretion’ are pretty ,unnecessary ?
Isn’t it possible, to convey meaning, without ‘their use’ , as the freenode page says ?
In the process, precisely what freenode said would happen , has occurred; the channel ‘temp’ was raised, very needlessly.
Most civilized worlds, don’t cuss like sailors ( I know, my father ‘was a sailor’, yet he never ‘cussed’), which says I’m right, about it being a generational issue.
I also had a uncle who was a policeman, a real nice guy who took no guff from people , in general, and I guarantee you, he never used profanity, at least not around us kids.
I’m not ‘judging’ anyone, lets be perfectly clear about that, I’m just using my free speech, as noted herein, to say why I don’t like it.
While I’m at it, let’s remind ourselves why this might matter ( to illustrate, its not just ME … ) :
http://www.tellinitlikeitis.net/2008/01/zero-tolerance-for-disrespectful-cussing-kids.html < there is something, while semi OLD, is worth reading. Do not make the mistake I resemble that individuals circumstances, but it does mirror my feelings on the issue, most likely because, I was raised in a family, were such 'volatile ’ profane words, weren’t ever said. My brother remains the same to this day, at least around me, who knows what goes on elsewhere, and I would not judge him if it did, but I certainly would tell him what I thought if I heard it. He respects me enough to hear me out , and not react with venom. BUt that’s how family treats each other I guess… see the url
I know of another website, and call me silly for not being ‘worldly’ enough , or not ‘understanding’ other places in the world where F**** are …HM… ore acceptable , but to me its just flat unnecessary to talk like that. No matter where on Earth its deemed ‘acceptable’, it doesn’t change the fact, that the underlying definition OF the word, remains profane Maybe freenode created the guidelines, because the vast majority of the world, considers such words as something most would rather not utter ? Again this is not ‘I hate you cuz you cuss dude’, this is about the freedom of my speech as well, to say such words are not necessary, as freenode says, ‘to convey meaning’, right ?
Color it how you wish, but it wouldn’t ‘harm’ anyone, to flavor their cursing into words with less emotiveness behind them. I can’t imagine how it would.
Free speech is one thing, but there are a lot of things people avoid, and just because it doesn’t happen in other ‘places not America’, doesn’t mean its okay
Thanks for reading, and anything I’ve said, was not meant to offend, anyone, but I can’t say the same for others posting here.
SOrry in advance, if it ’ seem’s ’ I’m ranting on and on, but I take my responsibility seriously in life, as I’m sure all of you do as well, so I felt I needed to answer each of your questions, similarly as you felt the need to comment on mine. THis doesn’t mean I’m incapable of cussing, but when I do, I always catch myself , even if I’m by myself, and say a non cussing word out loud. That’s just me, and no doubt a part of my upbringing, by two wonderfully loving parents, who gave my brother and I a wonderful childhood, similar I’d imagine to most of you here. That kind of thing, really matters , or so I hear ?
And also, before anyone says THIS isn’t about cussing, this is about using a awesome 3d engine,- well yes I’m here for that TOO, but it doesn’t mean changing my core values for that pleasure. I hope everyone would understand that, and respect people more when conversing with them, as I’ve tried to do myself, here in responding to your suggestions <wink>.
After reading through this thread I can see the concerns that are here and I do agree that we should have respect for others in the way we conduct and present virtual selves here in the Unreal Engine 4 community. We have filters in place that will filter and sensor profanity and offensive terms. While we do occasionally look at the IRC channel to see what users are having issues or concerns with it is not something that we monitor.
We will continue to strive to create an environment that is conducive to all. It is for this reason we use word filters on the forums and AnswerHub to keep everything as family friendly as possible.
If you feel there are concerns that need to be addressed we are paying attention and will look into them. We do thank you for your feedback and helping to make this community one for everyone to be apart of.
I really don’t understand where are you coming from with your discourse above, all I’ve done is make a matter-of-fact statement, as someone who has been on the IRC since the very beginnings of IRC.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine, so I shared mine because you solicited it in this thread.
Point is, you assign certain emotions to certain words while other people don’t. These words upset you while they don’t bother others. Then you are demanding that those other people are reprimanded in some way because of your personal views and beliefs.
I am perfectly fine with what you believe, feel and think, in general, as long as you keep it in your house - that is your private business. But when you come outside onto the street, that’s everyone’s playground not just yours, and so you have to take that into consideration.
In the outside environment, pushing your personal beliefs onto others is a definite no-no, and by demanding that something is done about your “hurt feelings,” you are effectively impeding the “free speech”, that you claim to be familiar with, of other people.
Either way, I’m not alienated in any way, these are just words, and everyone puts whatever meaning they want to them, based on their Belief System (or BS for short). I suppose you would never consider hearing/watching Robert Anton Wilson talk about BS as an eye opener, would you?
THis is getting out of hand, oh wait , you thought that too
" Point is, you assign certain emotions to certain words while other people don’t. These words upset you while they don’t bother others. Then you are demanding that those other people are reprimanded in some way because of your personal views and beliefs "
I am not upset, did I infer that. Never my intention, what did I say that made you think, I was ‘upset’ ?
I’m not in to games, Amigo.
No demands from me, just facts about how I feel about ‘cussing’ and ‘profanity’, and I think Tim made it perfectly clear.
If you have a problem with Tim and his response, I suggest you take it up with him.
I never suggested anyone be reprimanded, those are your words, never any of mine.
I can see given your ‘tone’, that discussing this with you, isn’t workable, which while regrettable, is what it is.
Don’t bother responding, as I’ve got you on ignore because I sense hostility in you and I’d rather avoid all of it.