I'm out from UE4 to Unity

[KnightTechDev]

@ErrorX;192373

I already said this in some other topic so moderator don’t have to comment on this.

The problem with the unreal engine is not the engine, but the documentation. And I’m referring to the API documentation.
Its missing sample codes and more in-depth information. And I know Epic games is working hard on this part to improve it bit still it’s a big problem. This is what makes Unity great for now. Unity is well documented and the most important function have sample codes. And for new programmers this is really important.

The only way to learn the unreal engine now is by reading the existing code and this takes a lot of time. Its UDK al over again. It took me full year to master UDK and unreal script it took me few weeks to master Unity and c#.
For now I also use Unity for my main project and play with the Unreal Engine in my free time. I really hope someday I can make the switch to the Unreal engine.

I’m a longtime veteran developer, and this is sort of like my retirement from core programming, because the reality is with this engine I almost don’t need to even program anymore and can make games, you don’t need to use C++.

The documentation and access to information is much improved compared to UDK’s documentation, and this is a massive engine, having the code and being an experienced programmer you can do things with the engine you wouldn’t with alot of closed source engines that don’t have as much flexibility, and the licensing and pricing are perfectly reasonable, you can basically program visually and graphically with this stuff.

You basically keep it simple, it’s easy to overwhelm ourselves.

Back in the old days, what I’d do to break down code to convert to other programming languages, weither it’s binary or assembly language or something higher level, is to comment the code block sections I immediately understood, I’d waste all my printers ink and print out sections, get the trusty staple gun and staple the pages together, I’d flip through each page and draw lines using pencil, pens, and colored markers to first isolate all modules and functions, and decipher everything into heavily commented plain English, and then identify re-usability or patterns and see where optimizations could be implemented to make things simpler and better, and re-structure code from there.

I’ve went through so many 20 pound Xerox and General Paper’s that way, after over 48 programming languages now, it’s no wonder I’m now programming using Blueprints and being lazier these days and cringing anytime I hear the phrase C++, Bill never was fully successful at replacing that with just Visual Basic.

Given some time in the distant future, and after developing a few games, I may decide to take a good look at the Unreal Engine Source Code in depth further and may try and tame the monster, I’m currently out of ink and only got one 20 pound paper package left, lmao

[KnightTechDev]

@tegleg;195212

project anarchy is quite young but its basically an editor on top of havok’s (previously Trinigy) Vision engine, and that has been going strong for a good few years. it has excellent documentation and is very stable. after the initial ‘farce’ of installing all the required sdk’s its actually quite nice to work with.
its main problem that has become apparent here is that nobody has heard of it.

I like the Physics Documentation right now for Unreal Engine like for the Physics Content Examples here:
https://docs.unrealengine/latest/INT/Resources/ContentExamples/Physics/index.html

And the PhysX Constraint Guide:
https://docs.unrealengine/latest/INT/Engine/Physics/Constraints/ConstraintsUserGuide/index.html

I’m familiar with early Havok guys, those guys used to play alot, I used to suggest their physics before PhysX came out, yes the Havok is better now compared to early development, I suggested before World of Tanks implement physics to make the tank combat more realistic and fix the visual look of how the tanks move and mentioned Havok when the clan Havok was in World of Tanks, they’ve since improved things and increased the feel of gameplay and visuals. Weither that’s what they use now I haven’t checked recently, I think it was PhysX.

The toss up back in 2008 for others was between PhysX and Havok and adding Havok to Torque.

Time does fly and it will be practically 2015 in a little over a week.

Some games Havok is used in:
://www.havok/customer-projects/games

And:
://www.havok/customer-projects/games/other-titles

It’s not as complicated to add or create core physics as you’d think, you’d focus on the 2D first when developing physics.

For anyone wanting to create their own using simple standard logic, you can review old articles for physics in Flash games and other games for instance for 2D gaming, it wouldn’t be hard to implement to a 3D game.

That’s where I got some of my old physics code at, and you can look at the old Tokamak Library, Box2D, or simply look at how something works then think about what logic it’d really take and how you can implement it.

To help understand how these things work.

So far, Unreal Engine is keeping things simple yet providing features, that if you know already how to do these things can quickly implement.

And there’s physics already displayed in their content samples.

Back in the day, I’d just look at some video’s and animated pictures, looking at the graphics to visually see how the physics on a per-case basis operated, and then after looking at an API name, create a custom function or support functions that did just that, always considering time based performance first.

And if you go the custom route goodluck!

[KnightTechDev]

@tegleg;192278

there is nothing naive about it. i have been making games since the mid 80’s so i do kinda know what im doing more or less.
i took to ue3 like a duck to water, got on like a house on fire, or whatever phrase you want. ue4 however, there are so many things about it i just don’t like or don’t get on with its very much counterproductive to continue with it.
apart from workflow issues the major stumbling block is the way its being developed, the ethos behind Epics decision making.
during the beta tests i had high hopes and just put the broken or missing features and general awkwardness down to it being in beta stage.
a year or so on and its still the same, they pile on the features with little regard as to whether they work or if its something users actually want. just look at the roadmap, things with lots of votes meaning this is what people want are way down at the bottom and generally never get any closer to being developed. things that are added are usually on the rendering side of things, as if it doesn’t look good enough. well it does look good enough and they should leave it alone and do more popular and interesting things with it.
if you want to make an unreal tournament clone with stunning graphics for high end gaming pc’s then this is the engine for you, as long as you can get into the unreal mindset and actually work with the tools.
because im essentially making games on my own there just isnt enough hours in the day for that, and with ue4 most of those hours for me are wasted hitting brick walls and dead ends.
well ive had enough of that, its not worth it if i want to actually produce a game within my lifetime.
maybe in a year or 2 ue4 will have matured enough to allow this and ill come back to it, right now its an incomplete and broken nightmare with horrible tools and, for want of a better word, spacky physics.
of course i will hit some roadblocks and experience some frustration with whatever engine i chose, but i know for sure i will get more done than i have with ue4.
ue4 in its present state is just not for me.

ill leave it at that, enough rambling.

In keeping it simple, I’ll post simple tools and workflow.

[KnightTechDev]

As for original topic, everyone is different, given some old advice Jim Morris once gave me in reference to development, it’s best to choose the language you are most comfortable with and go from there, what will work for one person may not be best suited for another, everybody is different and has a different knowledge set, so pick or choose the engine and development tools you feel most comfortable with and are most knowledgeable of but don’t be afraid to be open minded and proven wrong about something, things change over time.

This has turned into a very interesting and discussion on a number of things which I feel is also very important as there’s a number of very valid points in this feedback and it’s not one sided.

As for the book idea, some people feel comfortable sitting down holding a book the old fashioned way and mark things and make notes, but given the way the engine is constantly updated with leading industry changes, by the time one book comes out it’s already outdated and bugs and changes could not be reflected in bulk documentation in paper form as easily as the more modern digital format at the click of a button.

Same goes with video’s and picture information.

A several hundred page book today of Unreal Engine 4.2.1 would sit on the shelf full of missing features you’d never find in it such as UMG, and if you had a book for each, the cost to produce would be high, that’s not to say it wouldn’t be cool for a collectors item, it would also take up physical space and the burden of having to keep buying books would increase cost, you couldn’t simply type a search term in and immediately receive the result of what you’re looking for in near realtime like you can with Google.

To me, Unreal Engine needs more templates, and definately many new vehicle examples, and improvement to rendering using last years advancements in **Async **version which came out with Windows 8.1 (The old Async names and usage are not as optimal for Asynchronous programming anymore that are deprecated, the entire way Async code is structured and used now has been 100% overhauled.), this is perhaps where it would be lacking if anything at this point, besides the continuation and improvement of it’s more recently added features.

[KnightTechDev]

If you guys are having trouble figuring out some basic workflows, here’s some information I posted covering some of the tools I use and the basic part of my workflow:
https://forums.unrealengine/showthread.php?55025-Here-s-My-Content-Creation-Game-Development-Workflow-s&p=196730#post196730

And if that still doesn’t help and you feel more comfortable with another engine then best of luck to our friends here that decide on a different path.

But as for me, I’m staying.

[Mithril]

Amusing… but pointless. This is like discussing which kind of pen is best to draw with. I use the tool I need for the job at hand. I use: UE4, C4, Unity & Irrlicht. I even used Torque 2D&3D (but not any more) I saw one guy leaving and suggesting C4 over UE4… good luck… you’ll need it… I mean that in earnest. It’s a good engine, but gods in heaven is that engine strict. It doesn’t even allow for model scaling in the editor for one. You need to code pretty much anything you’ll need, and their version of radiosity leaves much to be desired. The most underrated engine I listed, is probably Torque. The source reminds me of code I saw back in the 90’s, but it is powerful regardless. it looks horrendous in the wrong hands, but at the same time I have seen guys do things with it, that looks fantastic for a dx9 engine (://www.gnometech/torque/images/blog-2012-12-19/2012-12-19-Title.jpg & ://www.simnewsdaily/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/BeamNG-Physics-System-Update-New-Torque3D-World-Preview-600x300.png) Unity is the direct opposite, it looks good in just about anybodys hand, but it is also fools gold. It suffers plenty restrictions, and technical assumptions that are near impossible to work around. But for making things quickly, and looking good sure… it does it’s job. That is not saying I think it is a bad tool, absolutely not. It is a great tool, and highly productive. But if any of you think that A is better than B because… (fill in the blanks) you’re wrong. A tool is only as good as the person using it. Especially what kind of style you want to present. Some engines are much better at it than others (even ones you think are not) You can have the best pen in the world and still draw like ****.

[Mike.Skolones]

Hi,

From above: “the vehicles are unusable, if someone were to release a game with vehicles right now there would fairly quickly be some embarrassing glitches all over youtube, thus putting the game (and ue4) in a bad light.”

If you are interested, I’m putting together a test project for working out vehicle issues, starting with the C++ Advanced template. You’ll find it here: https://github/NvPhysX/UnrealEngine, synch to the ‘Vehicle’ branch.

Changes so far:
–a minor change or two to the Vehicle-related code in Engine (tire friction)
– a minor change to the PxVehicle code in the PhysX project (to disable the sticky tire friction constraint)
– several changes to the car setup in the project-specific Pawn and Wheel classes. As it stands the car is rear-wheel drive with a limited slip differential. The open diff seems to work well too. I haven’t tried front-wheel or four-wheel drive yet, I generally like to start with rear-wheel drive. Four-wheel-drive can hide a lot of handling problems and makes it difficult to feel the of many chassis parameters.
– change to the controller input, so that the Xbox left-joystick has only steering, not throttle/brakes as well (throttle/brakes are on the right/left triggers).
– test track map: a flat track with 90-degree turns and S-turns, wider than the default map, without loop-the-loops, speed bumps, etc.

Note that this branch includes all of the PhysX code needed to build everything. The car is generally faster, stickier, more controllable, etc., than the default tuning, and I think it suits the track reasonably well. I rarely use the brakes, and I can keep the throttle at 100% most of the time. Actual speed doesn’t much exceed 100kph, but the track is very tight. I still see a few flying-car artifacts occasionally when running over the curbs, especially at an S-turn if you hit multiple curbs. I didn’t check to see if the drag bug was fixed, it’s on the list.

Cheers,

[newbprofi]

Out from UE4 to Unity? better think again ;d
When i used Unity again after UE4, i couldnt understand whats gong on ;d, i wanted some one to save me.

[anonymous_user_a006f79c]

@newbprofi;197922

Out from UE4 to Unity? better think again ;d
When i used Unity again after UE4, i couldnt understand whats gong on ;d, i wanted some one to save me.

Got to admit I agree, I tried Unity 5 for the last time not so long ago. Bearing in mind I’ve been using Unity for the last two years, after a six month break Unity seemed a little illogical and I couldn’t get used to it again.

Unreal 4 has a long way to go sure, but I’m very excited about it’s future. It’s picking up a lot of steam in the AAA and education divisions, it’s constantly evolving and the team are doing a great job. To create a 3D game of a decent size for consumer consumption, you’re looking at least a year or two so I’m happy to step along as it grows.

[anonymous_user_7318feb3]

To further outweigh the minor negativity:
I moved from Unity to UE4 relatively recently, and I am so glad I did. This engine might be rougher around the edges, but in my eyes it is like comparing an iPad to a PC. If you can do what you want within the borders of the firsts limitations, great, but to me the freedom of the latter is worth any complications you have to overcome.

The comparision is to illustrate a difference in complexity and resulting opportunity - not to flame unity, just so we are clear:)

Keep on being , I already outweigh this one migration

[illYay]

I tried using Unity for a bit but switched to UDK at the time since UDK at least had a great base for building an FPS like I wanted.

Now I’m really glad I stuck with Unreal because I’m a proficient C++ programmer since I used to develop my own engine and have no problems doing all the heavy programming work.

The amount of control I have with access to the full source allows me to do things I’d never be able to do with Unity. I can even make convenient tools for myself that are built into the editor to help development of some really specific stuff in my game.

[risc]

I think my personal opinion is tha UE4 is a great engine the only thing I been complaining is the low quality of water body (ocean in more detail) all the shader I see here they look like a pc of plastic bubbling up and down I would love to see something close to Cryengine water or Unigine ocean shader access every thing out is great fantastic render effect Caming Epic give us some decent water shader…

[Alzeric]

@risc;199447

I been complaining is the low quality of water body (ocean in more detail) all the shader I see here they look like a pc of plastic bubbling up and down

You should check out this project here. One of the more impressive ocean projects/usage i’ve seen in a long time.

https://forums.unrealengine/showthread.php?47316-Ocean-Storm-WIP&highlight=ocean

[risc]

Ocean

@Alzeric;200246

You should check out this project here. One of the more impressive ocean projects/usage i’ve seen in a long time.

https://forums.unrealengine/showthread.php?47316-Ocean-Storm-WIP&highlight=ocean

I not hard to set a dark environment with water they all look ok i like to see that in clear sky and i will tell you it will look like plastic sheet with some displacement to mimic waves…

you need to look this one and them tell me.

Unity : ?v=sQ11hadNgUk

CE: ?v=ra-ReDCa7dI

Unigine: ?v=AyR-wPyR4ng

All these ocean surfaces are set in few click of the mouse…by the way.

UE4 is very good engine but they need to catch out on this area all level design are not in warehouse mountain caves desert and building…

[anonymous_user_138c2332]

@risc;200945

I not hard to set a dark environment with water they all look ok i like to see that in clear sky and i will tell you it will look like plastic sheet with some displacement to mimic waves…

you need to look this one and them tell me.

Unity : ?v=sQ11hadNgUk

CE: ?v=ra-ReDCa7dI

Unigine: ?v=AyR-wPyR4ng

All these ocean surfaces are set in few click of the mouse…by the way.

UE4 is very good engine but they need to catch out on this area all level design are not in warehouse mountain caves desert and building…

The Unity one looks way worse than the current demos from UE4.

I agree though, light doesn’t go through water in UE4 thus results into looking like plastic.

[amigo]

CryEngine has some nice tech for water, landscapes, roads, etc, but sadly the workflow is horrendous as is the UI/UX. Epic should just acquire CryTek, strip off the good stuff and ditch the rest.

Besides, most CryTek devs would probably be much happier under Epic than their current management, judging by what some of them wrote on the Web.

Heck, at least they’d get paid on time.

[Mr_SquarePeg]

@newbprofi;197922

Out from UE4 to Unity? better think again ;d
When i used Unity again after UE4, i couldnt understand whats gong on ;d, i wanted some one to save me.

I know right UE4 is just so much more cleaner in terms of design and more well polished in terms of tools.

I am currently using Unity to see how The Elder Scrolls daggerfall was made.

[risc]

Unity ocean is been move to Dx11 ://scrawkblog.files.wordpress/2013/05/ocean9.jpg
And no don’t look worse the UE4 i take that over any ue4 water now the bottom line is UE4 have very good developer and capable to do better that what with got now i don’t have any douth about that… I hope eventually they have something decent to use as ocean shades.

[risc]

Here other sample and these is unity again

?v=ykPjzV9Z5Ew

[anonymous_user_138c2332]

@risc;201052

Unity ocean is been move to Dx11 ://scrawkblog.files.wordpress/2013/05/ocean9.jpg
And no don’t look worse the UE4 i take that over any ue4 water now the bottom line is UE4 have very good developer and capable to do better that what with got now i don’t have any douth about that… I hope eventually they have something decent to use as ocean shades.

It’s a plugin and not even public yet. btw still doesn’t look better.