I wonder how Epic will use the Shave and a haircut aquisition

It cant be used for games, i suppose some underlying tech for more high end hair rendering and sim for in engine special use cases perhaps.

i honestly never thought this plugin will interest epic, i wonder how future max versions will be affected if at all regarding the license but then again maybe autodesk had already settled this long ago before its implementation. I know epic mentioned the plugin will be free for maya users but didnt read much about the details.

I had to look that up, that’s a very strange acquisition for them, maybe they want to bring the tools into UE4 in a way for people to use the existing hair solutions like hairFX or TressFX. Or they could be planning on making the tool in Maya be able to make hair that could be more easily translated to UE4.
I can’t imagine that they plan to just keep it as just a Maya hair plugin.

Epic is investing a lot into “real-time VFX” and marketing Unreal as a CGI Animation authoring package so poly hair tool makes sense (if it can work on Maya LT).

If it requires Maya full API then it doesn’t make sense because Maya complete version already have polygonal hair/grass built-in tools for feature film.

Yes a bit strange on this one, Shave and a haircut’s features have been outdated even in VFX to a certain degree, In Max Ornatrix way surpassed it in terms of feature set and compatibility, In Maya there are many hair plugins other than the built-in ones.

I haven’t seen it having any features that could potentially benefit real time applications. Maybe they intend to modify the base instead of starting from scratch on a new real time hair solution.
At this point its just guesswork.

What will be great when we buy The Foundry, and we get Modo, nuke etc.

@thadkinsjr not to mention Mari :slight_smile:

lul I would actually learn Modo for real besides the basics.

@NilsonLima [USER=“434”]BrUnO XaVIeR[/USER] Modo performance is awesome, and having a nuke plugin for UE4 cinematics, and rendering could be Epic. All there stuff is Multi os too. So using Epic/foundry on win//mac/linux. Too easy. Would it be awesome to have an in Editor Modo/mori? Game Over. You win. Cue the credits.

As a VFX artist specializing in creature FX, I am really interested to see what they do with this. A lifelong gamer, I can’t wait to see where games and VFX start merging a bit more with new engine improvements.

I saw a comment about hair plugins, and Ornatrix does have some really cool features, sort of tied to some really different workflows. Other than that, there is really just Yeti and xGen these days.

While Shave has been somewhat out of the game for a while, I look forward to what Epic does with it!

Joe Alter has patented important pieces to hair and fur workflows and this has caused some annoying ripples in the VFX/animation industry for a while now (only allowed to use other fur tools if your product is only aired in certain locations etc). I wouldn’t be surprised if this deal was a combination of Joe losing interest and Epic not wanting to deal with the legalities of it all and just bought it.

We’ll probably see something at some point, it might not look anything like shave and a haircut though.

The 2004 patent was certainly an important factor, but I feel like I should point out that we’ve been demonstrating a purely GPU (opencl) based realtime advanced generator pipeline which has been experimental for years which are the basis of shave10 (along with some new features and methods). We haven’t sat still, we just haven’t released anything based on the new architecture yet. Losing a little ground to other products while we work on it and try get it right is not the same as sitting on our hands… I’d like to think beyond the patent we have other charms as well … :wink:

(note, my daughter uses this login a lot for fortnite, so be nice :wink: )

Good to see you around here Joe :).

I suppose it is the unreleased real time hair pipeline you are speaking of that epic was interested in. I certainly can’t imagine this for games for the near future, but perhaps Epic’s looking for a way to enhance their FX pipeline. But that certainly makes things a bit clearer.

Which brings back the question of how well this could potentially integrate with 3d apps, its an opportunity to ask you as a long time Max user if you will still be able to support the software with potential updates regarding hair and fur for whatever epic chooses to do? Or I suppose it would be an entirely new plugin.


It’s all going to be open source, so basically anyone (including me theoretically) could port it to any app as long as it doesn’t directly compete with them and is compliant with their usage rules (which are ridiculously generous).
But (me personally) I don’t think I would do anything without getting their permission. This was a very lucky break for me and I would want to make sure they were OK with it.
Just speaking from my own experience though, Adesk hasn’t asked me for anything in H&F since about 2014, and actively fought me on any upgrades I wanted to do on it for several years prior.
Not speaking for Epic here, particularly since I’m not privvy to such things yet, but my theory is that they’re spending some of their gains on creating good will in the industry and attracting an ecosphere around their tools.
I’ve probably already said too much, but my feeling is their heart is in the right place and they’re really making an effort not to be bullies.

If they can do something for hair with games that would be very cool. That’s what my expectation would be, perhaps they’re wanting to push harder into animated features or something.

Well the space shuttle uses tech from 2002. :smiley:…hip-from-2002/

Since most hair solutions are based on some form of shader technology something so old would seem to me a better fit with the UE4 engine as it has it’s own shader support so maybe Epic only need the framework technology with out having to pay for the shader technoligy.

buying into tech these days is like going to the hardware store and buying a ready supplied tool box where half the tools are not really needed or an occasion where they would even be useful.

sounds good overall, not surprised about Adesk one bit. Thanks for sharing.

Would love for Epic devs to shed some light on this topic.

P.S. DICE just presented their research on strand-based hair rendering in Frostbite at SIGGRAPH.…019_final.pptx

Looks like we’re getting a hair strand plugin soon!

Yeah, it looks like especially from their Siggraph presentation that they’re wanting to push more to be able to use UE4 for animation rendering and that their plan is to use it to develop a real-time hair solution for that. If you noticed in the Troll demo from GDC it didn’t have flowing hair there which they probably would have if they had an easier way to do it

Any updates to speak off :slight_smile: