As a 3D visualizer here in Dubai since 2007 Ive seen a lots of development in the 3D Rendering & Animation business in terms of money , now after Unreal Engine have made a break through in the visualization business which opened a lots of opportunists in different fields such as Interior Design , Animation , Tiles Companies…etc , now thats a good thing but these clients dosent know the effort we all put in modeling each part of the project and making sure no funny stuff in play mode,based on that the cost is definitely different and now they have their project in mealtime which can help them market their services more efficient .
My question is how can we as Arch Viz artist determine a price that can be reasonable for them an for us , i mean is it equal to an animation that just play and go with no interaction i think not but still how can i define a price that can be affordable ???
The simple answer is what ever the market will allow. Unfortunately RT is going to go the way of still renderings as more people learn to make them. The only thing you can do is educate your client and not sell yourself cheap as it hurts the entire industry. If they can’t afford it then don’t do it, offer them stills instead. I know most won’t do that because they need to eat.
What we do is work to their budgets and we usually ask what budget they have up front - so we have a £5k offering up to £50k with large increments and a portfolio of what each would look like and we show them. They choose what they’d like and that is the point where you know what their budget can comfortably manage.
If they are very constrained on the budgets and want high production standards then RT may not be right for them, they would be better with normal arch vis. However if the RT side is a big issue then production polish can become a secondary issue or the budget will be found.
In our experience the larger the project the more RT can add value so you may find through the life of a project that you start with a rough and ready version and basically work to milestones bumping up the production standards until the required polish has done whatever job/selling it needed to do.
Developers are 100% business men through and through so the main advice I could give is stand your ground on price and if its squeezed don’t budge or add features and boost the price, they’re only fishing for a best deal and will use every trick in the book to squeeze back their budgets.
Am really happy u guys come across the subject and share ur point of view , lately in Dubai cityscape i went there to see how many of them have come across RT and started to show off at the expiation with the Oculus glasses but i found only one company and it was a visualization company showing off a 3d layout plan that u can rotat but no walk through or even zooming in , i dont know if was happy that RT still a new unknown business or not but because i was here in dubai since 2007 and that time before the economy crises visualization was a very unique profitable business but then when too many people joined the business just for the money and not for the art prices have become really low and thats what am afraid will happen with RT presentation ,
If we as a RT artist make a fixed reasonable price that can be adequate for each party then i guess things will be ok but all am afraid off is those who just use the software to make a fast low quality presentation for money concern clients for a very low price because at that time things will start to get really confused in the market .
as for the price of a realistic still images in Dubai it all depend on the clients u working with but it ranges from 500 $ to 1000 $ at maximum .
That is exactly what “will” happen, I guarantee it. You have to understand every Architecture student is learning viz either stills or RT, animation or all of them. Many of those students will be your competition and many will deliver good results cheap. The only hope you have is to give better value to your clients. What is value? It can mean many things, location, price, quality, speed, reliability, aesthetics etc.
I believed that the new RT Arch Vis projects will mirror the business model for the current or traditional Arch Vis firms ( V-ray ) out there or maybe exceed it. I think the people who will set the true value for the RT solution projects are up to the top Arch Vis firms out there ( D-box, Neorama, Factory 15, Steel Blue and so on ) it’s up to those guys whether they think doing a RT projects is profitable or not. I think things will even get more interesting when the consumer Oculus Rift version enters the market and that should complicate your RT price point even more. I believed that this is a very good problem to have in general.
$1000 max?
That’s very cheap. is this for a small apartment? it’s still very cheap
In any case, what I would do is pretend to be a client for one or more design companies. Study what they charge and how they break down the cost and just follow their pricing models.
I think any of us can put a price point that is reasonable for our clients but the problem is doing a RT Demo is so new that there is no solid business model for it. I think we need the help of the big Arch Vis firms to legitimize the value of a RT Demo. I’m just being cautiously optimistic about it and it’s only an opinion.
I’m glad that this is been brought out - it’s a serious concern of mine and my employees.
You’re selling time for money in this business, you need to figure out what your time is worth and charge accordingly - nobody can do that for you. The model of x $$ per second, as some charge for 3D animations, isn’t going to work.
I’m actually not counting on the value of - The model of x $$ per second, as some charge for 3D animations - as you have said. I think that equation will not work and I do agree. A real time demo of what an Architect has designed is a whole new ballgame. It opens a lot more possibilities. It’s valuable for marketing, context data and probably environmental design just to name a few.
I think it really comes down to the quality of work that we produce or the Arch Vis firms out there and how high the demand is. ( demand pretty much dictates value ) If it becomes successful, I think it will be a totally new field of work in my opinion and I think it’s great.
I’m actually not counting on the value of - The model of x $$ per second, as some charge for 3D animations - as you have said. I think that equation will not work and I do agree. A real time demo of what an Architect has designed is a whole new ballgame. It opens a lot more possibilities. It’s valuable for marketing, context data and probably environmental design just to name a few.
I think it really comes down to the quality of work that we produce or the Arch Vis firms out there and how high the demand is. ( demand pretty much dictates value ) If it becomes successful, I think it will be a totally new field of work in my opinion and I think it’s great.
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It won’t be any different though to how still images are priced. You have the same mind set from the clients, Architects and Developers mainly. They are going to want the best price best quality they can get. The value you offer is in the service you provide, is your work better, does the aesthetic match the clients, are you local, can you get it done in their time frame on budget etc. Demand isn’t going to play into what you can charge because there will be no scarcity of people able to fill the demand. Initially there might be a window of opportunity where there is more work than people able to do it but that won’t last. Real time viz is here and it will become common place in Architects offices as technology advances.
I really believe real time visualization fee/price is going to be really low, almost free. All the tools required are already available for mass audience at affordable price and some are even free.
Unlimited library of 3d models and PBR materials also available at low prices or free. So, even a person with average skills can create real time visualization with the right tools in his hands. Maybe this is not entirely true, but I’ve seen this trend happening everywhere for the past 10 years in digital computing (programming and art) area.
From business point of view, this situation is great though. For instance, I can hire fresh graduate programmer for low price to help me in some projects. It really doesn’t matter if he doesn’t have the skills yet, since copy-paste programming is becoming a common practice nowadays.
This “copy-paste” situation is also happening in real time visualization now. I did one project for my neighbor (a real estate developer). I created the basic structures and custom objects in SketchUp Pro, grab UE4 (previously tried Unity5 but didn’t really like it), grab some materials from Substance Share website, grab all the props from 3d websites, put all the assets together, and voila, real time arch vis in 2 weeks with minimum interaction (walking and automatic door). I charged him 1500 USD, which is very low compared to what he had to pay for a 4 minutes presentation non-interactive video. My neighbor was happy because according to him the visuals are great, even better than the presentation video. The best thing is I didn’t do anything special, didn’t tweak baselightmass.ini, just adjust the lighting, using PBR materials, adding blueprint to doors, and apparently that is good enough for my client.
^ Yep, and this will be the majority of the work out there. There will be high end projects that will want more but those are going to be limited. I see it already in job postings, clients want 3D walk throughs for the price of a still render.
Yes but there will be a difference between a quickly made cheap render and something more elaborate, almost like a piece of art. Look at what MIR does for example! Doing a video is one thing but doing a real good video require much more expertise. You need to understand composition, story-telling, video editing, sound editing etc… But there is a market for everything heh!
Thank God my client didn’t ask for that kind of stills and videos!
For me, the ability to walk through the house/building and interactivity with the environment are the major selling point for arch viz, well at least that what I was selling to my clients, good lighting and PBR materials are just bonus for them
But in 2 years time (or maybe less) I think more clients will ask for full interactivity and Oculus Rift ready arch viz, and yes, possibly at the price of still renders or even less (-_-")
You also need to get “those” clients. And, to get those clients you need to show you can handle the job, which means a great portfolio and a staff to do the work. That will take time. Honestly I don’t see UE4’s quality level high enough for major presentations like Dbox and others do at the moment. That said as a design tool I think it’s got a good chance. Maybe down the road when things like reflections (mirrors, glass) no lightmaps, better lighting solutions etc. it can compete but right now there are too many problems.
I think the ability of walking through a building in VR is going to be useful not only for marketing but also during the design process (maybe even just with clay models). I listened to a couple VR podcast about that and that’s what they were telling. The interactivity is a gimmick imo. It will get old FAST!
I would focus my energy on composition/mood/story instead of programming complex blueprints just to be able to open a door. No one needs to experience how a door opens, close a light, open a tv, etc. but everyone will want to experience the scale of a building, and how you feel in a given space, etc. That’s the true meaning of virtual reality imo.
