(sorry if this looks weird, just made account so my bad if it looks wrong) i have been reading thoroughly through this thread and one more that i really want you to check out How Long Until We Could Make A Real Sword Art Online (sao) Nerve Gear Type Device (sorry if the link is not there im bad lol) im just 11 but if that looks really cool and after you have read that (thank you if you did) if you think that there would be to little memory space in a small device then this would prove you wrong Newsroom Home
(again i dont know how to use links) but i think that our best bet for scanning and reading the brain would be nanotechnology.
please respond i might not be able to assemble a team but i can give ideas.
Yes, this is a highly active area of research. Treating the brain as an I/O you have a chip “latch on” to the output nerve signals. See things like disabled people controlling stuff with their mind, exoskeleton research etc. “Hijacking” the normal output nerve signal of higher functions is definitely a big goal of the transhumanists. The limbic system and lower functions are potentially separable, this is evidenced by the fact that you can be unconscious but still breathe, etc.
Again, this is a very serious endgame of the transhumanists prior to full consciousness upload to the cloud. By replicating the nerve stimuli that causes sensory perception you can potentially feed anything you want into the mind.
I believe that the process of transhumanism is at the end of the day one which transforms humanity completely. We are already at the start of the process. Just like the damage cell phones (if merely at the attention span level) do becomes mainstream, these transhumanist devices will become accepted.
While it does sound that you would like to achieve deeper interactivity in a less harmful way, I do not see a middle ground. DARPA, Google X, Google, Ray Kurzweil and the transhumanists are very, very deep into going “all the way” with the final outcome uploading one’s consciousness to a hyper-powerful AI-cloud-system. In “The Singularity Is Near” Kurzweil even suggests that eventually the computational power of the ENTIRE UNIVERSE can be harnessed as a God AI Singularity Universal Computer. If you think this sounds crazy just read his book, he says this stuff.
The work required to accomplish this is being very actively pursued.
That’s why I suggest the timeline as:
2015-2025 Wearables & VR
This is the first step in tracking the human being as an input-output carrier.
Output: The wearables (smart watch, fitbit, etc.) are designed to be a PERMANENTLY INTEGRATED part of the human body which tracks and records all output functions of the body (heart rate, sleep, thoughts, etc.)
Input: Virtual Reality is the first step in feeding full input INTO the body that is INDISTINGUISHABLE from reality. Imagine a case in which you are gaming in a VR headset and become so immersed that it becomes almost impossible to use your physical hands to remove the VR Headset to go back into the “real world”.
2025-2035 Brain Chip
Output: This is a natural flow-on from Wearables & VR. Computationally with integrated circuits SOON going under 10nm fabrication and massive leaps and bounds in nanotechnology, on the output side as you indicate isolating the nerve outputs will be possible. Note that many functions can be isolated at the SPINE level and as such exoskeletons, etc. processors can be “latched” onto the spine central nervous system WITHOUT interfering with the brain. Spinal chip implants could be more popular than brain chips, at least initially. THOUGHT ANALYSIS can be done by the brain chip through extremely high-resolution scanning (note immense leaps in MRI, CT, etc. scanning technology). In otherwords, with the brain chip, think, and it will be so.
Input: CCD input into optic nerves is already established. High resolution input of optical and audio information by 2025-2035 via a very tightly integrated brain chip is very likely. It is not hard to imagine in 2030 a brain chip the size of a grain of rice directly running DX12-level games at 16K into each eye (of course, the game platform software would also have evolved so much more for much greater reality on increasingly minituarised devices).
2035 Singularity
This is the ultimate goal of the transhumanists. Once the brain chip becomes an Input-Output interface with seamless integration with the human brain, with universal 10th-generation wireless technology or beyond, the brain chip I/O inteface will then interface with the cloud. At super low latency and currently unfathomable bandwidth, the human brain then becomes just a client node interfacing with the SuperCloud. At this point, the human brain is then scanned and replicated onto the SuperCloud. The physical human person and their human brain can then be claimed to be “indistinguishable” from the replicated human consciousness IN the SuperCloud. At this point the physical human body and the “normal” human brain will be thought of as old, useless, outdated.
This has all been announced and targeted by DARPA, Google, Google X, Ray Kurzweil, Bill Joy, Bill Gates, etc. In 2015-2020 you will see Virtual Reality investments start to skyrocket as it ties in directly to the transhumanist agenda of the richest and most powerful people on the planet. Of course, at the R&D level they have easily gone beyond Virtual Reality, VR is the “consumer-friendly” face to this first phase of the Input part of transhumanism.
That’s strange, as per above there are people with enormous amounts of resources at their disposal that want to and ARE doing this. Perhaps this forum is not the best place but I am sure there are other places. Some elements of what you talk about are heavily involved with military research and/or highly confidential realms of commercial R&D and elite academia. There’s also many published papers from the cockroach-controlled-with-a-chip to the latest stuff (which I am too afraid to look up, to be honest).
Ray Kurzweil is the rabbit, follow him and see how deep the rabbit hole goes. I pray you see enough and get out before reaching the end of that trail.
EDIT: Remember that Input-Output Replication is ALREADY underway at the level of thoughts, feelings and emotions. ASK YOURSELF: WHY WOULD FACEBOOK ASK “How are you feeling today?”. It may seem harmless, benign or silly but think of the quantum-processor-AI that can process all these data points of not just physical human input-output patterns but of THOUGHTS, FEELINGS and EMOTIONS. Note also that all these data points can be correlated with PHYSICAL patterns such as heart rate, etc. Of course, while tracking of feelings and emotions are mainly text-based in social media, image recognition and deep learning can add to the data points and eventually deep realtime portable scanning of brain and body tissue can reveal thoughts and emotions. Transhumanism seems really benign and/or silly at the moment but the endgame is… DIABOLICAL (literally).
Charity Ad On TV, 2040
“For just $2 a day, you can sponsor a child to be uploaded to the SuperCloud. Donate today and download a copy of their consciousness to your device within 24 Hours.”
We are thinking to far ahead of are selvs I know I spelled that wrong but don’t have much time sao exsplains it all to use are nervies system all runs the the serebreal vortex in the back of your neck above your spine and below your brain all your brain signals to right through there if we could find a way to read these impulses we could eventually make a full dive game just like sao yes your going to take the risk of getting back or stuck in it well unless you had a group of people trained to watch each players brain waves from a system computer and make sure that don’t happen but they would have to work round clock 24 /7 one shift come off the other comes in something like like if we can tap into the serebrall vortex we could have this tech sooner than 20 too 30 years
I’ve been noticing a lot of people talking about “stopping” the certain brain waves sent out to control touch, smell, sound, taste, and sight. My theory isn’t to “stop” these impulses, but rather intercept them because if you stop them then that would more than likely cause the harm that people have been talking about with this technology. The first step before anything is to recognize these impulses and make a generalization as to how they manifest themselves. At this point, all that would need to be done is a simple calibration of the impulses that an individual’s brain sends out and cater to how their brain works. Of course, this is going to have to take some SERIOUS coding and development and I could only imagine how many thousands of pages of code it would take, but this is how it should be done in my honest opinion.
Now as for whether or not we have the technology yet is beyond me. I’m actually currently in college learning some basic engineering and coding classes, but after graduating I’ll be enrolling into school again to take up on neuroscience and more in depth classes on engineering and software development.
Anyway, another concept we need to take up on is putting the body into a type of sleep paralysis just as it does when we, well, go to sleep. I don’t see too much trouble with this since we’ve already somewhat figured out how the brain does this, other than harnessing it and using it at will. After we’ve taken care of senses and our induced sleep paralysis, we need to figure out a way to keep this device cooled as it will obviously be running hot as hell trying to keep up with the processing power of our brains. Remember, this device isn’t just tapping into the brain, it’s creating and rendering ALL of that data that it needs to make you simply see, feel, smell, taste, and hear. My guess is it would be some sort of liquid cooling along with some high-tech fans.
Something else I wanted to dwell on is the “pain” people keep talking about. Now to have touch is to also have some sort of “pain” level. I’d say that this needs to also be calibrated to each person because everyone has a different pain tolerance. Before I say anything else, the sense of touch is already going to have parameters put in place so that you can’t feel much of any pain so you don’t have people going on and choosing the highest setting because they’re pain junkies. It will just base it on how MUCH you want to feel. Aside from that, I would say that any type of “damage”, for lack of a better word, you take the pain would be rendered as a blunt object hitting you and not so much it sends you flying or anything. Just more of a, “Hey you got hit from this direction” type of thing. This helps if you are playing pretty much any game because how would you know you are grasping something or where you’re being hit from?
Another “sense”, if that’s what you’d call it, would be our ability to balance ourselves and tell which way is up, down, right, left. We’d need to be able to coordinate and balance ourselves, correct? This entire thing would be pointless otherwise. So what would we need to intercept? The impulses that go to our vestibular organs. Now, what would we send them to if we can’t just put out vestibular organs into the game? Simple. You make a virtual organ that follows the physics of the real world.
So there are all my theories so far. Probably some more floating in my head, but it’s late and I can’t think of anything at the moment. Hope this forum goes somewhere.
Well actually this is a very challenging thing to do. To be able to access the brain and control what it can feel, see, even do, it difficult on itself. But it can be done. In only 10 years we made a crappy computer that needs floppy discs into massive rigs that can handle intense graphics and usage. This would be almost unbelievable. When you see this, it really makes you think, how much longer until a full dive rig? Maybe another 10 years is all that it’ll take. Kids that are under 10 years old already know how to over clock and fix computers, most of us already know what we’re doing when we open up a new device. We learn at a pace that would be almost impossible. A supercomputer can almost run at the capacity of the brain and medicine has advanced so much! All that really needs to happen is for a helmet or visor to knock you out and control your dreams. It would be like a massive dream that everyone could experience all at once. This isn’t impossible, and it may come out in the very near future. Our vr headsets have already started to integrate the real world into the virtual world. Microsoft’s new device is bringing the two worlds even closer. Who’s to say that in a few years we will all have full dive gear? Except no getting stuck in a game, please! Don’t let an idiot touch the software, or have an EMP or some emergency device close by.
the thing with pain is we have medical knowledge that doesn’t take it away but rather numbs it right? so. if we can find a way to increase the intensity without the increased toxicity, so that it numbs our bodies IRL but also works with the gear, we’ll be fine. the full dive tech IS there. we just have yet to fix the things that could kill us. the “nerve gear” in SAO that we would be “Safer” with is the visor verses the helmet. bottom line: find a good tranquilizer with minimal side affects and a visor that has the ability to “shoot” the tranq into your brain and intercept the senses all while keeping us “asleep.”
I cant say that I have much experience in this field so Im not entirely sure how this could be done because Im still in college but consider for a moment the ability to create a virtual dream that we could make that the brain would see as a dream. In a dream we do not experience pain (to my knowledge) but we can experience site, hearing, smell, and touch and if we could find a way to interpret these specific brain waves and then make our own kind virtually and then send them to the brain to be read as a dream we could set the speed in which the brain receives the data so we could then set how long a game would last this would keep us from spending weeks in a game while only spending an hour in real life, if that was the case it would be unfair to other players. We all know that we have 100’s if not 1000’s of dreams a night ones we remember and ones we don’t and the brain can have more then one at one time, so then the brain would have no problem interpreting a dream that we feed it the trick is getting threw the skull without breaking the skin or the bone and making the dream so noticeable that we don’t forget it we have to have a scanner that can not only enhance the brain waves of a dream and read them but it would also have to be able to send the brain information in some way, this would also probably involve us making some new forum of gaming language that can be interpreted into a dream. the closest anyone has come recently to a Deep Dive VR is simply controlling an in game Avatar with thought though even this is in development the person thats working on this expects to use the Oculas Rift and a head set for the site and hearing bits of VR but this would not reach the end goal of all our dreams we would simply have a controller on our head… but if we can put a controller on our head that interprets mental commands why cant we send data in the same way we receive it? Another problem that might arise with this type of VR is how do we block the Imagination of a person? in regular Lucid dreams were we have site, smell, hearing, and touch our dream is at the mercy of our own imagination. If we made a virtual dream that we would simply play threw we would need something to keep out imagination. Of corse this forum is a lot of trouble for full emersion (if its even possible) if we don’t want to go threw this much trouble and research we can always settle for the currently developments that almost give us full emersion… Though all these thoughts Ive just mentioned are some what SiFi like consider that cell phones were SiFi to until someone discovered it.
However, I am currently a computer science and engineering major focusing on virtual reality and brain computer interfaces. A while back I made a forum ( http://nerve.boards.net ) dedicated to the creation of an advanced virtual reality brain computer interface. (Like the nervegear in SAO.) I am currently heavily looking into ways we can use our brains as virtual input.
For the people who think we can do this through dreams theres only one problem. When dreaming you dont make up new faces or new tastes or new anything realy. What you see in a dream is stuff you have already seen in your life. So lets say you just make a dream induced gaming thing were everyone has the same dream but everything will taste and look difrent because everyone has had diffrent experinces. Antoher issue with useing a dream state is that you dont remeber very many of your dreams and this is becuase when your dreaming your brain isnt trying to remeber the stuff you see its just trying to comple all the stuff you have in your short term memory and stuff it into the long term area. The only reason that your remeber a few is becuase that the snyapses by chance fire at the same time. The only way you could possobly utilize a normal body fuction that happens is the part that keeps us from moving. This would have to be amplified becuase other wise im pretty sure people will “sleep walk” has they are trying to kill a boss or something.
well i can assure that i totally want that to happen and would be like the first person to wait in line. However i cant say im positive with the comments saying that a game like SAO will happen in like 10~15years.
Its not just a singular area . It would be a convergence of the most highest medical + brain research + gaming technology. Especially , the brain part must be more developed.
Hacking the entire nervous system is required since thay have to block the signals going to the body and also send virtual , olfactory, taste, touch signals INTO the brain. (Even that is just the basic nessesity) Is it even possible to send a intended picture or graphic to the brain at the present?
Can you imagine how many innovative and revolutionary inventions could come out just with the required basic technology i mentioned above? For example , the blind could see , the deaf could hear, person in a vegetative state can talk to his/her family , people could be able to watch a 4D movie without a screen etc…
But a virtual full dive game is a technology even more advanced than that . Im not trying to say its impossible but it must take steps. Its not a kind of technology thats gonna pop out from nowhere. Thats like expecting a smart phone before bell created the telephone. After the devlopment of the telelphone , stuff like computers, internet, walkman , cell phones came out and at last ! the smart phone. Of course i think it will take shorter time than that but i doubt it will happen in like 10years. Even if we had the all tech right now it would take years to commercialize it since it EVEN has ethical, social, and safety problems to handle!
I just wish i wouldnt be the old fisherman in SAO. lol
I noticed a lot of posts talking about sending signals to and from the brain that register like a dream state, but i dont think this will be successful if we go at it in this direction. Possible if we go at it in a manner to send and recieve live sensory signals, causes the brain to think we are in the virtual world when were not, the reason being. A thought occured to me, a lot of times, when people dream, the instant thay wake up from the dream either the recolection of the dream is completely lost, or fuzzy at best, so you would have good memory of whats been taking place while in the dive, but after you come out of the dive, for a lot of people a lot of the time at least, full or partial memory of what they did in the dive would dissapear. Unless someone is trained in the art of memory of the dream or to “lucid” dream, which for a lot of people either isnt possible, or would take a very long time. Plus in your dreams your not completely in control of what your doing, once again unless trained to “lucid” dream. So i would think it would require tech to read the brains waves, have amazing defences to hacking intrusion, and be able to send sensory signals to and receive from the brain, compute these signals, and be able to send them over the enternet in a manor that would show yourself in third person to other people instantly.
I have one word for you. Nanotechnology. Currently they have nanotech that can find a point in the human body. sent these to the cortex of the brain that controls movement and receives signals for your senses from this point the nanotech blocks these signals receiving the signals instead. these signals are then transported to a band that sits on your head there is a visor the covers your entire face. this band wirlessly transmits these signals to a computer and the computer sends the signals back to the band which then tells your digital character to wave its hand, run, draw weapon, open a door, take an item, etc. these nanites are wirelessly charged and wirelessly turned on and off. to turn on simply turn on the computer tower witch will send you into a white room with a drop down menu with a games list, a social chat room, a store(for downloading new game content, and updates to the computer the headset, games, and the nanites), and a power off button to power off the entire system.not only would this advancement in technology create a better way to game but it would creat advancements to military, education, and medical fields all together.
I read a story where there HAS now been prostetics created that give the sense of touch back to people that wear them. They can actually feel things through the prostetic. This means that technology has advanced to the point where we can send signals to the brain and have them interpreted correctly. Given this, we know what signals to look for and where to send them in the brain. Now in any Full Dive setup, the equipment would be able to detect these signals.
I also read that brain to brain links have also been created where someone can control another person’s body. The test subject being controlled was able to get those sigjals and their body acted on them. This means that we also have the ability to directly translate movements into a virtual body if it was made as such.
So now we have movement and touch covered, we have vison, smell, taste, and hearing left. Now there are various technologies that improve them however now that we know how to look for these signals and isolate them, it is only a matter of time until we can substitute those too.
There are two fundamental challenges here really preventing us from making full dive a reality:
-Suppression and rerouting of the body signals
How to do this all wirelessly and non invasively
The first point is hard enough on it’s own but gets incredibly hard to do wirelessly.
I mention wirelessly because this is ultimately the goal as until it can be done wirelessly, there will be limited acceptance of full dive systems. Not many people would want a surgery to use this technology, especially not if it is brain surgery as that starts to become incredibly risky. Perhaps nanite technology would be something to look into as this would accomplish the objective among giving other health benefits however that would be not quite in the next few years as that tech us still developong… The nanites would be capable of suppressing the signals while activated by a certain signal by the full dive system until the person logs off and the signal is deactivated and the nanites go dormant again. Now this is not totally non invasive however as i said people may start getting them in the future anyways because of the health benefits nanotechnology is capable of and so full dive would be a secondary function as there is medical benefits to nanites being able to suppress signals anyways such as people with chronic pain, preventing injured patients from making their injuries worse, etc.
I want to discuss this more with you guys in real time and maybe even work to combine our research to create a prototype full dive system. If you are interested let me know.
To create a virutal reality headset that creates full immersion we could
use a vr visor for sight or by targeting the occipital lobe of the brain with electromagnetic pulses
bluetooth headphones for hearing or by targeting the temporal lobe of the brain with electromagnetic pulses
aim the electromagnetic pulses at the limbic system of the brain
electrodes attached to the head to interact with the brain connected to a high powered lithium battery for high electromagnetic pulses in the brain
the electromagnetic pulses will be aimed at the brain to create immersion in a clinically proven to be safe way
technology like this in one virtual reality headset would cost around $600-800 to create
dont believe such technology would be so cheap something similiar to this has already been created called the EPOC Emotiv or NeuroSKY and both of those are cheaper but less advanced (click on the links for more information> https://emotiv.com/epoc.phphttp://neurosky.com/Electroencephalography - Wikipedia
maybe not as much pain as the real world like if you die it feels like some one hit you in the gut
with out pain it would suck there should alway be a little pain Example say you get shot it hurts about a 8 in the vr world in should be like a 4
Ideas for full dive:
1- mri scaning to monitor you
2-indused paralysis for safety and some sort of brain chip that can control the flow of brain activities[your sences] (personaly im not thrilled with the chip idea but it seems like the most pracrical option)
3- brain security can be just simple checks, if something doesnt check out (like a spike in brain activity that may reprisent pain, idk) you are pulled out of the “dive”
4- dreaming will most likely not work because you expirience just as much sence wise as you do away, its just more complicated
5- in addition to regular functionality checks, being “hacked” could be stoped by somthing like a rationality detector, if something seems irrational you just get pulled out, plus what is the worst thing that can be done to you, as far as i know you cant ddos attack your brain but even if you could you could be removed from emersion
6- nanotechnology seems dangerous, idk much about the field but i dont think many people would want millions of micro ai robots in there head 24/7
7- the technology itself seems really simular to a console and a controller, you imput, the console outputs (ex vibration) ik it would be alot more complicated science wise though
8- i beleive this technology will be available to the public widely in around 30-40 years, it will need a lot of time to be tested and perfected, and to design games to make it enjoyable, i think we will have developed most of it in about 10 years, it really depends on how many scientists and engineers work on it
9- i think companied like call of duty and other large games will do most of the coding work, do to the fact that thats what they do already
I’ve seen this thread before and basically ignored but I just read it and I have to say 2 things, 1: it seems to be a pretty bad idea to me, 2: it will probably not happen in any of our lifetimes.
