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Full Dive Virtual Reality (Total Immersion)

I want to start a topic about full dive virtual reality…

For those of you who don’t know, Full Dive Virtual Reality is a type of virtual reality in which the person is completely immersed in a video game. The human brain would have no idea that what the person is experiencing was not real at all. All your senses, smell, taste, touch, hearing, and sight would be transferred into a video game character, much like the anime Sword Art Online (please don’t make this a discussion about the anime) Now, this would be the FINAL version of a full dive experience, things like smelling isn’t necessary but obviously would increase immersion.

Currently, many people are discussing how to go about make the *simplest * version of a full dive, movement only.

After that is accomplished, I predict the game industry would be at a halt or standstill. I say this because I believe the main goal of almost every video game is to achieve total immersion. By the time the simple version is accomplished (I think 2020-2022), the graphics of a video game would *almost *replicate reality.
The question is what then? The game industry achieved total immersion, the next step I guess would be to make an even bigger game, different story, different mechanics, more optimal for low-end computers etc.

Many people want to see it happen but there are ***so ******many ***issues to be discussed, what do you guys think?

For gaming, things will have to adjust to the limitations of VR, mainly the limited movement, even if you can track a person’s movement well they will be limited on space and what they can touch. I don’t think there’ll be any good solution for that. The ultimate thing would be some kind of device that would connect to the brain, but that might be too complicated if you have to have a device surgically connected to your brain. But I think that’s the only way to achieve that kind of effect.

I’m sorry but I don’t think you read my topic. This is not the Oculus Rift or anything similar to it. No screens or anything.

Given Full Dive is successful, your body is completely paralyzed. You try to move your arm in reality, but instead it moves your arm in the video game. When you’re in Full Dive you have absolutely no sense of reality. Everything about you is now in a virtual world.

This is what the device would do, assuming it’s a helmet like device…

  1. Reading brain states with sufficiently high spatial and temporal resolution
  2. Analyzing in real time the read brain states to create input data
  3. Writing brain states with sufficiently high spatial and temporal resolution

You can basically do this today with lucid dreaming (no surgery necessary) but it can be hit-or-miss and requires training.

For “full dive” VR there is probably more promise in finding a way to lucid dream at will (with a device or drug or whatever) than there is anything to do with screens and headphones and traditional gaming devices.

I know, but the VR is what we have at the moment.

There’s two ways to get full immersion, either create things that can give the required input–touch, smell, motion, vision
Or to trick the brain into thinking it’s getting it (like the Matrix).

Creating a device to send those signals to the brain is much more likely, but probably not going to happen any time soon.

We had a huge discussion on this on the Oculus forums awhile back, and how to make it a reality, rather than fiction. Basically, it comes down to just a few points:

  • Culturally acceptable level of intrusive technology, basically, it would need to be acceptable for this technology to be a household product for consumers. There are both medical and security concerns, and these concerns cannot be taken lightly.
  • Processing speed: You basically need a quantum computer for processing, however, within the next 20-30 years, the Iphone 50 will have a quantum processor in it.
  • It will not come from the gamer-space, but will come from the medical space.
  • We have the tech to do this now (but it’s prohibitively expensive and is relegated to the research labs)

Finally someone smart in this thread…

I agree with your first two points, but your other two points are debatable.

Back in ancient times (early 2000’s) people thought that when VR was going to come, it would be used for medical first. Obviously they were wrong, because just about all VR now is used for gaming. Most people now trying to develop “Full Dive” are gamers and want to see it used for games. (hence http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/27902-how-long-until-we-could-make-a-real-sword-art-online-sao-nerve-gear-type-device/)

And for your 4th point, where and how in the world is this being developed now?? What exactly are you talking about? You are talking about Full Dive Virtual Reality, right? The VR in the anime Sword Art Online? I highly highly doubt we have the tech to do it now (technically, we have some of it… reading/writing brain states but it’s very low resolution and requires many more years of work, not to mention translating “brain code” into something a computer can understand.

The tech isn’t designed for “full dive VR” technology, however, it could be redesigned(?) for it. It is a mix between some DARPA projects (visuals), blindness research (giving people that are blind their sight back) as well as the “brain controlling prosthetics” chips that are being experimented with. This is why I believe the technology will come from the medical field. If you can control a prosthetic with a chip imbedded into your brain, you can then use that to instead provide an input into a computer.

Of course, hearing isn’t too far behind this tech, and is perhaps even easier? The more difficult of an issue to solve is processing nerve stimulation… you would want some, but you don’t want to have “full sensory information”, because if your, say, playing an MMORPG, it would suck so hard to be a tank :wink:

This is from that science thread you listed, and I find this hilarious actually, because in deep theoretical quantum physics it seems that there is a modern day hash algorithm at play :wink:

Well, I don’t think pain will ever be integrated into this system… I hope at least.

The question is. Do we have control over progress?
i think all what humans have invented until today is part of nature and evolution. We can plan our lifes, but we don’t have control over future.
Full-Dive VR will happen. It is just a bit more tricky to hack those fibers 2 cm burried beneath the skin almost non-invasively.(spinal cord).
Photoacoustic imaging in combination with wavefront engineering, adaptive optics will show us neural activity deep beneath the skin with high spatial and temporal resolution.
Just like astronomy used adaptive optics to cancel out our atmosphere medical imaging methods will make us of it.
We cannot forecast the exact date of Full Dive VR.
It doesn’t has to be 50 years away. Totally unreasonable. Why? Only because it is so awesome?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=jXLzpeSfoFk

Our linear very risky assumptions towards progress are odd.

Non-invasively focusing light into strongly scattering media, such as biological tissue, is
highly desirable but challenging. Recently, wavefront-shaping technologies guided by
ultrasonic encoding or photoacoustic sensing have been developed to address this
limitation.

This technology has the potential
to provide highly confined strong optical focus deep in tissue for microsurgery of
Parkinson’s disease and epilepsy or single-neuron imaging and optogenetic activation.

Really I think that the Hardware have to react on the impulses that the brain is sending. To explain it a little bit. When you think about something as an example to go right your nerves are sending an impulse to your brain and extract that impulse to a reaction “turning right”. Also the Hardware have to send these impulses into the game that very quick. There is a lot danger in trying it even when it works how save is it?
What happens when someone hacks the servers? There will always be hackers who trying to hack Servers or what ever. It would need an algorithm which changes always the password and a lot more.
I thhink an new company will join the gaming market with the Full Dive Technology it wouldn’t be someone we know now. Maybe in 10 years.

Until the day we can send signals directly to the brain there will never be full immersion.
And even then its a major philosophical challenge. Considering no two people perceive something the same. And it would require overriding the brain… something which poses another critical issue as it opens the door to mind control.
Its a technology i truly hope stays out of our reach for as long as we exist.

I think this technology would be more like a “hack” to the “dream part” of the brain. Perhaps a forcefully induced lucid dream that’s shared with another person maybe.

You do not need to research technology to suppress body movement or technology to stimulate your cortex to think you’re moving your hand.
This “technology” already exists in your brain: dreaming!
In your dreams you feel presence, you jump, run, cry, talk, sit, laugh… without falling out of your bed.
We just need to find the API documentation :slight_smile:

This is absurd, it’s like people from 1940 to talk about today VR possibilities.

We have to hack our brain completely to achieve something like that.

I’m not seeing happening it in the next 20-30 years at the best. And it will become the ultimate addiction, because you can simulate drug effects and hormones, not only perspective. I can see it how people are not motivated anymore to be socially developing and get in the basement living in their fake reality connected with the web living, while rotting in RL xD while drinking soylent from time to time, so they don’t die. The matrix is real.

I like your analogy of watching people from the 1940s guess the future because I’m sure if the people of the future come back and read this thread they will be ROFL.
I’m hoping I can live long enough for this to be a reality, I mean this reality can be rewarding but it is mostly a challenge. Religious people should appreciate full immersion because they can experience heaven on Earth for the rest of their days. I mean, feed me through a tube and leave me plugged in, I’m out of heeeaare. (naive thinking I know, what could go wrong?)

Lets just hope on some major tech break through in the next 10 years :smiley:

That’s the downside. The upside is, people who are disabled or can otherwise not live a normal life, could do with such a technology.
You’re old and about to die? Have your brain kept alive and stay online until the end of days :slight_smile:

A good insight into what’s ahead is a talk by Google’s Director of Engineering, Ray Kurzweil.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=660oel93vZA

This level of technology and more will creep up on us very quickly and it is a train you do NOT want to miss.

Well honestly the tech can be developed the only really tricky part would be developing a software that can recognize which signals to send by themselves and which ones it would have to duplicate cuz if you honestly think about it to be able to achieve a full dive your motor functions would be intercepted while the signals to your heart and lungs would have to be duplicated and let pass through the peace of equipment that transfers the signals to keep your body IRL alive so the calibration would have to start a few minutes after the signal collection begins… Not to mention creating a device that can even pick up the signals without having to be implanted in the body but that said I’ve been trying to figure out a way to come up wit some way to make this a reality of my own…