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4.15 tonemapper - is it possible to simulate old effects?

From 4.15 notes:

That’s great, but in my case I prefer the old emissive/bloom look for my project, because it better matches my artstyle. I see that I can turn it off by adding r.TonemapperFilm=0, but "We intend to remove the old tonemapper in a future version of the engine." - so I guess that this is only a temporary solution.

For example, this is my goal (<=4.14):

Bez tytułu.png

You can see that the orange color is visible, as well as the slight orange bloom effect.

Now, this is how it looks in 4.15, I’ve additionally increased the Emissive multiplier by a lot to make the bloom show up:

Bez tytułu2.png

As you can see, the orange color is gone.

Is it possible to somehow ‘simulate’ the old effect with the new 4.15 system? So emissive materials would retain their color (instead of turning white, I know that this is physically correct, but we’re talking about stylized/fantasy world).

Well, in your example it might be physically correct, but this is definitely not physically correct:

The new tonemapper is just broken if you want colors to show up as the color you set them to be. Once Epic sees that most people have to switch back to the old tonemapper they will probably either keep the old one forever or fix the new one to show the correct colors.

Whoa, indeed this seems really off… Not possible to achieve blue emissive material? So this is a much more serious issue than I thought…

Imho, all big changes like that (it drastically changes many visual effects) should be experimental/optional first + get through feedback stage… Now many people will have a surprise waiting for them in 4.15 - Hey, I’m a new tonemapper out of nowhere, and from now all your fx colors are off!

I hope that Epic will add some option to simulate the old tonemapper soon, or an option to switch between the new and old one via some checkbox… But the question is, will they really remove the old one?

I am also not a fan of the way the new tonemapper was forced onto us and the fact that bloom has been completely changed.
I understand that we can go back to the old tonemapper, but that doesn’t really help if the bloom is no longer the same.

All of my red emissive has now changed to orange and isn’t really very emissive anymore…
uFHsTKA.png

My entire scene looks much darker (yes I built lighting) with the new tonemapper, emissive bloom is just dead, and emissive colors are incorrect.

4.12.5

4.15
Jz6GlFE.png

I haven’t even started looking at my particle systems. I know they are all going to look much different now too since most of the are magical and emissive.

Just wondering, have you guys looked at the bloom threshold setting? I haven’t checked out 4.15, but in prior versions, the bloom isn’t physically accurate unless you set the threshold to -1 (which wasn’t the default). The release notes make it seem like the bloom default setting has changed, but not the way it works. So perhaps if you set it to 1 or something else, it will be fixed?

@erebel55 I’ve also noticed that my scenes are darker in 4.15… So one more problem with the new tonemapper, on top of the color/emissive issue.
@Wilkes I’ve tried the bloom settings, we can adjust bloom amount indeed, but unfortunately it doesn’t bring back the ‘core’ color of materials… Or turn the pink to blue in the [MENTION=24522]John Alcatraz[/MENTION] example :slight_smile:

Have you tried tweaking the new tonemapper settings with a post process volume? I think the default settings look a bit washed out, but increasing the Slope can help with that. You can also tweak the Toe and Shoulder to adjust the contrast of dark and bright areas respectively. If it’s too dark, try lowering the Toe.

To bring back some color, you could try increasing the saturation of highlights under the Color Grading section. Around 1.2 seems pretty good.

I’m about to review my own projects with the new changes, but I agree it is worrying that they intend to phase out the original tonemapper in the future. It would have been better if we were given the option permanently rather than temporarily.

I’ve tried this and other tonemapper settings, but none of them brings back the color, unfortunately. Increasing the saturation of highlights brings some yellow tint, but it’s still far from original color (orange in my case):

Bez tytułu3.png

Thanks for the hints though.

I am really fine with the new tonemapper, all the effects so far look way better (after some tweaking here and there)

But I occasionally do agree it would be nice to (optionally) have a pure color being emissive instead of them going paler. (which does feel more natural)
An additional material input that changes the amount of glow besides emissive might also be very desirable now to do just that.

Agree with you all…a bit disappointed about the new rendering. The difference between the 4.15 and 4.14 is THE problem atm. Impossible to recover quickly the same rendering between the same finished scene ! The ‘core’ color of materials is the problem :confused: @Stalks: thanks to point this setting…hard to find a solution when i am upset :wink:

I come from a VFX background where true floating point/out of bounds whites have been part of the pipeline for years - UE4 is now getting those sorts of benefits by using the Tonemapper. The behaviour of light wants to be handled in a reliable/scientific way most of the time but it’s great to be able to bend reality (especially as UE4 needs to continue to serve artistic aesthetics)
Hopefully there is a compatibility switch that continues to be useful.

Meanwhile I’m about to play out some HDR to our LG OLED. I’m extremely excited about that - but I need to make sure I haven’t done anything that isn’t physically correct first !

Matt Hermans

“We intend to remove the old tonemapper in a future version of the engine.”

Don’t play with my heart :open_mouth: I don’t have to list all the games that are using the bloom look of the old tonemapper for VFX, also curious how you gonna replace that, hopefully a button with a slider that gives us control of the color, that would even be better than the old bloom <3

not sure whats going on with ssr.
But that aint right.

awwww :3 Posted it on answerhub, now we have 2 places
https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/564982/415-tonemapper-ssr.html

While I do agree with Luos that stuff looks nice with the new tonemapper, incl. Effects, I also strongly agree on the fact that its less than ideal to not be able to have a pure red surface that also has red bloom anymore. The problem with ACES is that it treats values above 1 completely different from the old tonemapper which is causing exactly those issues. I am not too sure though if those could be fixed fairly easily :S Although, I would like to see something similar to the ACES tonemapper that still handles those cases a lot better! :slight_smile:

Cheers!

SSR might be reflecting the diffuse values excluding emissive, thats why you see this difference in value?

which is why I suggested to have an additional input for materials that just adds glow, instead of emissive.
though, this might sound more proper in my puny brain than it actually is.

Based on what?
Reflection are handled in linear space before tonemapping. Floor isn’t perfect mirror so it’s does not reflect 100% so it’s make reflection dimmer. With new tonemapper those bright blue pixels are shifting towards white but reflected blue isn’t that bright so you don’t see the shift.

Same is happening at this photo for cloud orange tint. Cloud look lot less orangy than it’s reflection from lake. http://visitrainier.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/reflection_lakes_dd-700x400.jpg

Well, its just a guess. Also…your example looks heavily Photoshopped so I would not take it as a reference. Besides that, the energy loss caused by diffusion/microfacets should not be that extreme since the floor is still very close to a mirror reflector.