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What's so dangerous about UWP ?

I think I am missing something… UE4 created games run on a variety of platforms / distribution systems… Epic is not forcing us down any path… What are you suggesting here…??

teak

My concern is only that Epic is choosing which platforms should support or not for us. One thing is if they said “No, it’s not viable to support this platform for X reason”. That would be kinda fine (although Unity supports, so why couldn’t Unreal?). But Epic has some issues with Microsoft. They don’t support Windows Phone, and now they so far won’t support UWP. Why? Because it’s best for us as developers? Microsoft won’t simply get monopoly over the entire industry, they are trying to do that for so long and never got there.

My point is simple: I believe the engine should empower the developer to choose. And that could affect HoloLens support, for example. Monopoly for monopoly, Steam does it on the PC. If your game doesn’t pass Greenlight, how are you going to monetize on PC? That’s not monopoly?

Saying they should support ‘every’ platform is really quite naive - supporting platforms costs a lot of money; if Epic don’t believe they can make a sufficient return on support for a given platform, then they won’t support it because it isn’t worth the expense on their behalf. Windows Phone is one of those platforms.

You do however have the source code. If you think it’s worth supporting a given platform and you can make that return, you can take that risk - otherwise your argument is basically ‘I want you to spend the money on my risky venture, because I don’t want to accept that risk’. I can’t recall who, but as an example one company ported an older version of UE to work on the Nintendo DS, as an example.

Well the thread is about UWP. No support for it means you can’t publish UWP apps for Xbox One, HoloLens, Windows phones, tablets and desktop. Possibly even more in future.

But if MS would close the system to third party, can’t they be hit legally based on their monopoly as happened back in the browser wars? I mean origin, Steam, GoG, UbiSoft must have vested interest that PC stays an open platform. I mean looking at it this way: There is always a way to go back to Win 8.1. Which still has official support and is open as it always was.

Ahh… I see now. I don’t remember anything saying they would not support it… I do know, Epic has an opinion on the direction MS is taking. Not sure why anyone (at this point) would support UWP… Lack of user base compared to steam, locked in to a single environment, etc.

teak

UE4 does not support the WiiU… So, if you are a developer wanting to support that platform, you would find another engine. Epic is not forcing you to do anything…

teak

Yes. I suppose you’re right on this one. We all have a lot of options at our disposal.

Assumptions, Assumptions, Assumptions…

The original antitrust case lasted years. Afterwards Microsoft continued to fight against the exact payout amount.
Essentially with enough lawyers & lobbyists you can bend any law to your will… (Expect similar games with Google).

Microsoft has shown its willing to slip toxic updates into Win7 / Win8 without warning!
Plus, most end users don’t have the time, energy or knowledge to downgrade anyway.

MS may continue delivering stealth updates to coerce users into UWP / Windows Store.
Tim Sweeney @ Epic has spoken out against Microsoft (slow-boiling-frog). Worth a read!

UWP is a form of platform lock-in - it is the only reason that it exists in it’s current form.

You might not be able to make a UWP app, but you can still build for Xbox One and PC. Neither Windows Phones (save perhaps the newest Lumias) nor Hololens really has the hardware to support UE4 properly, so in that sense it’s kind of redundant.

maxihori wrote: “try to imagine what would happen if unity reach Unreal in terms of graphical quality.”

thats why I (partly) switched back to Unity3d … there is the poss. way unity3d-visualstudio-xboxone …
(i have tried to get the xbox dev tool for unreal engine but these way of epic games
“Thank you for filling out the UE4 Console Access Request (regarding the xbox dev tools) form. Once we have received confirmation of your developer status (ms dev) we will reach back out to you to continue the sign up process.”
is very complex - u exactly have to know what u intend and to describe your ideas (in a very early stage) to ms.)

but … i will open a thread “UE - visual studio - xbox one” - maybe the way is possible.

best, stef

Well I listed you a bunch of platforms which user base combined is not that small and the audience is different compared to places in like Steam. Some people like to take advantage of non saturated markets like the guy who you originally replied to.

Yes, but Epic is not those people. As far as Epic is concerned, the audience is too small.

Yeah I’m aware of that but UWP for Xbox One means for example you can run the game on your own console today without being registered developer. In future it could possibly also mean you can get your games reached by Xbox users through the Windows marketplace. For the hardware support I’m not sure where are you actually referring as the support for all the platforms come with UWP itself and rest is just optimizing memory use, shader complexity, etc. to get running on lower-end hardware.

This part is correct, although as a UWP app you should be aware that it is limited in terms of what it can do; you can’t develop an XBox One scale game with UWP, for example you only have 1GB of memory to play with on a home console in dev mode.

This is purely speculation.

There are limits as to ‘how low you can go’. A large number of Windows Phones do not have particularly strong hardware when it comes to handling intensive applications like games, and those that do exist do not have particularly deep market penetration (e.g. the new Lumias). Hololens’ hardware is also really not up to par when it comes to UE4.

Yes it has it own limitations, however Xbox 360 or PS3 for example had far less memory and processing power available in general.

But it’s not. Microsoft has talked about it past years and at Build 2016 event they said that later this year Windows and Xbox markets will be merged (or all Windows 10 devices). The current dev mode for Xbox one is for developers to preview/test their apps and games. I’m not sure if everything will be available everywhere in the end but that was the plan.

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/56e9a4a591058422008b6c90-3264-2448/img_2364.jpg

A lot of the Android phones don’t have either and it’s more wild west than WP is. However I think WP is dying now for sure when Microsoft killed their own production. That does not rule out all the other UWP devices including HoloLens which will be up to developer to decide how to use the capabilities of the device.

You may have noticed that Unreal Engine 4 does not support those platforms either.

They have stated that the stores will effectively be merged, so that there is only one ‘marketplace’. Software will still largely be device specific (UWP apps don’t magically work on all platforms, nor are they necessarily suited to all of them), and this also does not mean that curation and certification for certain platforms (particularly the XBox) is going away. It just means they’re unifying their currently pointlessly discrete systems.

…but a number of Android (and iOS) devices do and have done for a while, unlike Windows Phone.

Hololens ruled itself out with it’s fairly weak hardware; it’s only an Intel Atom x5; the onboard GPU is extremely weak:

If you’re developing for Hololens, you’re better off looking at Unity.

I don’t know if UWP would be dead if its as cheap as ambush says. Microsoft’s been very successful with its “Emb, Extend, Extraceinguish” policy in the past, and it likes to get peoples’ guard down before quickly going full aggro.

If you wait by the river long enough the bodies of your enemies will float by… :stuck_out_tongue:

They’re probably not getting rid of it entirely, since devices like Hololens only run UWP