Ultra wide lens choice

Hi everyone,

I’m looking to buy an ultra wide lens for my Nikon D5300 (DX) camera, to use exclusively for photogrammetry (especially in scenarios with limited space). I’ve posted in other forums but there’s just too much choice so I’m still undecided and was hoping you might be able to help me out. Am I correct in assuming that as long as the lens doesn’t introduce too much image distortion RealityCapture should have no problem aligning and reconstructing a scene?

I spent a lot of time Googling and have narrowed down my choices to these 4 options:

  • Tokina 11-16mm - this one seems to be a customer favourite on online forums but gets slightly higher distortion
  • Tokina 11-20mm - this one gets the best DxO rating with my camera
  • Tokina 16-28mm - according to DxO this one has the least distortion, but it’s also the least wide of the options
  • Sigma 10-20mm - widest angle, gets good reviews, but apparently less sharp along edges

Each gets great reviews, but of course none of those reviews take into account photogrammetry!

Which would you recommend? I’m looking for something as wide as possible which still gets good photogrammetry results. I’ve taken into consideration sharpness, auto-focus enabled, price, amount of distortion - am I missing anything? Is there some reason any of these would simply be a bad choice for photogrammetry?

Any feedback is as always much appreciated!

Cheers,

Tom

Hi Thomas Van Damme
look for aspherical lenses…

is the new https://www.sigmaphoto.com/12-24mm-f4-dg-hsm-a over you budget ?

Hi Wishgranter,

I often work on archaeological sites so that involves being in environments with lots of mud, dust, water, … My lenses have to be good but also relatively low-cost so that I’m not afraid to use them in these environments and don’t kick myself in case one does get damaged.

Also I wonder how noticeable the difference is between one of the lenses I mentioned and the aspherical lens you linked? If I were to know that the cheaper lenses are absolutely useless for photogrammetry and won’t allow images to align then the aspherical one would of course be worth it. But I know you recommended the Tokina 16-28mm on Facebook so I’m assuming it’s not completely worthless haha.

The reason I still looked into the other cheap wide-angle tokina and sigma lenses is that they’re still significantly wider than the 16-28mm. Any reason that you’re aware of why these three other lenses would not work for photogrammetry?

Very grateful as always,

Thomas

Don’t overthink it… as long as the lens is decent you’ll get good results. If an iphone can give good results using just about any photogrammetry software, a m4/3, crop, or full-frame sensor with a decent lens will give results perfectly fine for anyone not looking for sub-mm scientific accuracy. And if you are looking for extreme accuracy, then you’re not worrying about price.

For what it’s worth, I’ve had success with everything but fisheye lenses using CR. i.e. 16mm on up should be fine. Anything below 16mm and you start getting inaccurate distortion and bowing of the models in CR.

Hi Brennmat,

Thanks a lot for your input, much appreciated :slight_smile:

So you say that anything under 16mm will likely produce bad results (even if it’s not a fisheye lens but a good ultra wide with minimal distortion)?

As you know a difference in 5-6mm (say Tokina 11mm or Sigma 10mm vs 16mm) can mean more than 20° difference in the angle of view, so ideally I’d like a lens that goes as wide as possible.

Sincerely,

Thomas

Hi Thomas Van Damme
if you get ASPHERICAL lens, then the distortion is quite low and therefore there is good image quality up to their corners… Personally, I would NOT go under 12-14mm… as the image distortion can be just too high… use the 12-14+mm lens and get enough overlap and it is done…

Hi Wishgranter,

Thanks once again.

Since I don’t generally need the sub-mm scientific accuracy provided by aspherical lenses, I guess in this case I’ll go for the Tokina 11-20mm and simply zoom in to 12-14+mm. It has the best DxO score, it’s sharp even in the corners, and it seems like good value for money.

I generally set my images to “medium overlap” anyways in RC align phase, so I’m assuming the software then focuses on the middle of the images (ie the least distorted part) so in that case the more extreme distortion at the edges is less important anyhow.

Kind greetings from rainy Belgium,

Thomas

The Tokina 11-20mm has arrived, I’ve had a couple of days to play around and I have to say my first impression is overwhelmingly positive! Little overview of my experience so far.

So first pleasant surprise: the box in which the lens came states that it’s an aspherical lens! Hadn’t read that in any of the reviews or online specs, but Wishgranter said that was the sort of lens I should look for so that’s great.

Secondly: ultra-wide really does mean ultra f*cking wide. I guess I theoretically “knew” that the angle was going to be very wide, but I didn’t really grasp just how wide until I took my first pictures. You can literally photograph another person standing at arms length and have their entire body in that single shot, with plenty of ground and sky left along the edges. My first tests were on a square with a church, and I could easily capture the entire opposite side of the square with a single picture, whereas with my regular 35mm ‘wide’ angle lens I’d need at least 8 pictures (4 along the width of the square + a second row of pictures above that to get all of the facades).

In terms of handling: the lens feels very sturdy, the zoom ring is quite “resistant to change”, so you don’t have to worry about it moving in our out without you actually meaning to do so, and the auto focus is fast and accurate.

Picture quality looks great (here’s a landscape shot I did, edited in DxO), the wide aperture allows for good shooting in low light and at F11 the images look sharp from corner to corner.

So my first photogrammetry tests were on a city square with a church: I first recorded a statue and the bottom of a tree there. I then decided to push my luck and record a tunnel by just aiming the camera in the same direction as the direction of the tunnel (not the walls of the tunnel) and hope that because the view angle is so wide the entire thing would align. Finally I made some shots of the church on the same square. The images were a mix of 11mm, 16mm and 20mm. Total number of images: 173.

Processing just the images of the statue in RC showed that everything aligned without a problem. Because of the large view angle lots of stuff besides the statue was also recorded, though it’s clear that towards the edge of the reconstruction the noise in the mesh increases. Same story with the pictures of the tree. I was really impressed that the images of the tunnel aligned without problem, considering that none of the surfaces (walls / ground / ceiling) of the tunnel were ever in the middle of the pictures but only at the edges.

Finally because so much of the background that I didn’t intend to record was also being reconstructed, I decided to have a go at aligning all images together, and was surprised to see that even that worked. I should remark that in the areas overlap at the ‘bottom left corner’ of the screenshot there are some misalignment issues, but that area was always just recorded in the corner of my camera and was never really the focus of the shoot, so I’m surprised that it managed to align to the rest of the model at all! The camera locations are shown on that screenshot for those interested.

So conclusion: I think the Tokina 11-20mm F2.8 AT-X PRO DX lens is a great price / quality purchase for photogrammetrists! The software didn’t have any problem aligning the images even when taken at the widest 11mm and the wide angle allows you to significantly reduce the amount of pictures needed to completely record large or cramped spaces.

The only downsides compared to my regular Nikon 35mm prime is that the Tokina is significantly heavier (you definitely can’t shoot from just the wrist, you need two hands; that’s all right for a couple of pictures but if you’re taking thousands of a pictures in a day I can imagine your arm getting tired). You also have to remind yourself that even though an area at the edge of the field of view might be reconstructed, you also have to take images of that surface with the camera oriented perpendicular to the surface (nadir) in order to avoid surface noise. Finally the Tokina captures a lot of the scene in a single shot, but those pixels still have to share the same sensor space (in my case 24MP), so you can’t expect the same mesh detail from 20 ultra-wide pictures as you’d be able to get with 160 less-wide closer up images of the same scene taken with another lens.

Hope this little “review” is helpful to someone!

Thomas Van Damme wrote:

The Tokina 11-20mm has arrived, I’ve had a couple of days to play around and I have to say my first impression is overwhelmingly positive! Little overview of my experience so far.

Great write-up Thomas! Important to note that while it IS indeed still a really wide lens, at 11mm on your DX sensor, it’s effectively a ~17mm lens. What was the total polygon count of the model? I find that when using ultra-wide lenses, because you’re cramming more information into the same picture-space, the resulting models often have lower resolution/poly-count than a similar model shot with, say a 30mm lens. Might be obvious, but still something to keep in mind.

Models look good - there’s no doubt it’s satisfying to shoot something like a tunnel or really tight space and then be able to get a model of it!

ps - beautiful landscape shot of the vineyard.

Hi Brennmat,

Thanks! Here’s the polycount when I ran two parts of the square (just the tunnel and the statue / tree) at high resolution. It’s still quite high but as you say the level of detail looks lower than it would with say a 30mm lens, that’s what I was getting at with

the Tokina captures a lot of the scene in a single shot, but those pixels still have to share the same sensor space (in my case 24MP), so you can’t expect the same mesh detail from 20 ultra-wide pictures as you’d be able to get with 160 less-wide closer up images of the same scene taken with another lens.

Yes at full-frame equivalent it would be “only” around 17mm, but it’s still so ridiculously wide haha, I was honestly blown away by how much fit in a single shot, but then again I’m essentially a photography newbie so this might be old news to more experienced users!

Cheers,

Tom

Hi Thomas Van Damme
As for the calculation of GSD (ground sampling distance) in RC, use HELP and scroll down to HOW TO TAKE PICTURES - there is a tool that can calculate the GSD with different sensors and lenses…

P.S. Good review !!! :smiley: