UEFN is not fun - my thoughts

Friction goes against motivation, and if a creator is motivated rather than economically incentivized, having an editor where the simplest actions involve a 2-second process, bugs introduced bi-weekly, and now heavy restrictions that funnel the process through the eyes of game dev makes it so that you don’t want to build.

In Creative, even if bugs happened, I was always motivated, because even if some things were weird (like not having undo), there was a level of immersion and intuition made into the tools + the artstyle always kept me inspired, I love the art of Fortnite.

But now I am behind an interface instead, no character unless I wait 5 mins on every edit (I do landscape work too), and even though I have more power which I enjoy a lot, the feeling of immersion is not there unless I am building in live edit.

And every update is moving towards gamedev rather than UGC, so I feel left out more and more with added friction that could be handled in a different way or instead allow more flexibility.

Epic needs to understand that UEFN is a UGC hybrid not a gamedev engine. UGC is meant to be dumbed down and have no friction in development, that’s the main difference from Gamedev engines (and that is hosted within a game or has free use of its content, ALL of its content mind you). Any problem that does not relate specifically to gamedev should not be the user’s. The reason UEFN is a diamond in the rough is because it can bridge the gap between gamedev and UGC, specifically have the power of gamedev with the agility and ease of UGC.

Now if initiatives like the padding ^ 2 get constantly introduced (or when you disable Paper2D workflow, lock all your assets behind a validation system which can be used to create great content, disable most features of the parent engine to develop, have a moderation process that is made up and doesn’t follow industry guidelines or age ratings, then have a discovery system that is simply a popularity contest and allows only content creators to thrive), UEFN is becoming just a restrictive game dev engine with a very narrow focus on player demographics, which at this point from a developer perspective is not appealing anymore, I can use Unity which is much faster and intuitive to do things (I don’t care about engine performance, I am not making realistic games).

UGC is what keeps this engine alive, so start looking at making it easier to do things, instead of adding more friction every update. And don’t listen to the 3 game dev studios because they are a minority, listen to the Creative community which is feeling more and more abandoned everyday you add changes that are not pre-educated and are not easy to do in the first place (and generally add more clicks).

The point of UEFN should be “I have this cool idea, how fast can I make it before I forget it” rather “Let’s make the most optimized and convention-abiding game”, the latter should be the engine’s responsibility, not passed to the user unless its a choice. But its not a choice anymore:
-You can’t use engine content
-You can’t use fortnite content for building custom content
-You can’t use the Fortnite Engine content assets past the blueprints
-You can’t make a 2D game unless hacks
-You can’t alter gameplay past the 3rd person unless hacky
-You can’t have textures that are not padded to the power of 2, but at the same time you can use lumen and nanite which are light years ahead in tech.
-You can’t instantly test your game or code
-You can’t make a game that will be stable
-You can’t have a game that survives more than 2 weeks in Discovery (unless there is an exception)
-You can’t have a space character or start a filename with a number, but you can do that in the outliner cause reasons
-There are no optimization tools to tell you if you are doing things wrong, Creative and UEFN alike
-Most content you import will not work unless you know at least 3 tricks that are not shown anywhere
-Warning messages will usually pop up about things you don’t care about and clutter your screen
-Engine is a highly complicated hybrid which means that bugs can get introduced which are really hard to find, repro and report and only show when projects start scaling
-Many actions require knowledge of gamedev “because that’s how it was made back then” (like making a particle, or setting up a spinning wheel with a sequencer, or simply adding a skybox)

Now, I am not trashing on the engine just so I can vent, this is feedback that is a wake up call to all departments when they introduce more restrictions and processes to the engine.

I don’t see anyone introducing a hotkey to modeling mode tools or “Paste here” to make our lives easier, or heck, even ask us “are you having fun with UEFN? What are your blockers” and actually have someone work on these issues (documenting them is not enough, action is the only thing that matters). The hotkeys that were exposed recently most of them don’t even work.

And it seems to me that the original vision of UEFN which was “we will not restrict you for XYZ, you are what controls this now” is slowly and weirdly going away with updates, instead of actually getting more power to develop games:

-You cant have a gun firing in the thumbnail anymore
-You cant have carbonated drinks and show that they do good for the player and get featured
-You cant have numbers or an alphabet in your map, and the player can throw something to them
-You cant have mentions to any discord or twitter CTA, even if it for obtaining user feedback and bugs.
-You can’t compress audio files anymore, a specific way is forced upon you
-You can’t have custom resolutions on textures now too.

Like where does this stop? Do we need to be updating our previous games constantly now and make that a full time job so that we can get our 20 CCU? Any form of complexity and going away from BR mechanics is not rewarded and we all have to just use the default devices and do the same things BR does to leech off their playerbase, whilst telling any other player base that we don’t care about them. Because the moment we don’t make simple combat games, we have to deal with all the friction again, and the constant changes, and the bugs and the game dev funneling.

I am demotivated to build atm, because it feels like the original vision of UEFN has been lost. You turned this wonderful editor that had potential to be an industry leader into a demotivating series of checklists with no soul.

Please, please consult creators on how to revert friction and add shortcuts to bring back the ease and immersion of Creative.

P.S. To the argument “If you love Creative so much, why don’t you build in it then?”, have you seen how buggy Creative has gotten with the lack of a development team manpower to support it? For 5 months, you couldn’t even open the mode by clicking on it and it was fixed when a season changed the interface.

@Wertandrew Thank you for your feedback. While I cannot guarantee a response, I can confirm that this has been forwarded to the appropriate team.

100% agree

I’ll also add that, posting bugs and issues here seems like they often get ignored and never fixed. You never get replies from devs themselves addressing them.

There’s important material functions etc that are missing.

We have no Idea what bug fix or feature is coming up next. Just a vague trello board.

Also having to calibrate your island and go through tedious processes every time you want to update it or its thumbnail is insane to me…
EVERY island should automatically have XP given based on playtime, accolades should be an added bonus and not a requirement.

Also updating your island for seasonal events etc. should not be this complicated to get approved. Same with the thumbnail.

I know UEFN is still in beta, but the lack of customizable gameplay outside of FN is disappointing, you can’t make custom NPC with your own animations + meshes, unless you do tricks which look cheap any way. For example minions that walk/attack/use abilities etc.

You cant have custom characters/camera angles OR animations either, so your game will forever be stuck looking like Fortnite no matter how much effort you put into the visuals.

You can’t make cool sequences with custom character animations for the Fortnite Character, like for example making a live event and applying custom animations to the FN character in certain sequences.

The whole experience of building an island to then publishing it so far, has almost become negative. And I hope that changes…

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This.
The reason why everyone thought of UEFN as “Creative 2.0” is because we expected it to be an Unreal Engine that’s accessible to the average player. UEFN is a not-so-good game engine that also fails to capture the magic of building in Creative.

Not only that, but I also feel like UEFN has completely sucked the life out of maps in Discovery, it wasn’t that great prior to UEFN’s release, but this past year all i’ve been seeing is tycoons and horror maps, which while many of them are very technically impressive and some are quite fun, the creativity has been lost. We used to have deathmatch (COD style deathmatch, not a bunch of Red vs Blue clones), zombie apocalypse, adventure, and many other unique experiences in Fortnite, and now I don’t even bother to look through Discovery since I know exactly what to expect.
What saddens me is that I don’t even know if this is gonna be solved within the next year, Epic has done so little in the past year to improve the experience for both creators and players, and in some cases made it worse through things like the new age rating system.

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Different jobs require different tools. UEFN is just a tool, you do not have to use it. But it is quite powerful.

A lot of things are possible now, everyone has a chance to create and share their work.

I think every important issue within the editor deserves a separate bug report.

Is maintenance hard with every update? Request unit tests and code coverage, so at least working things do not break.

Are specific operations disallowed? Request specific functionality.

I fully support the recent decision to focus on performance and explain the new approach to the community. Knowing that everyone can enjoy your map no matter how powerful their platform is might motivate you.

I agree with most of that Andrew, not all, but I have to say the biggest blocker to me is the severe lack of debugging tools. We get Print. Wow… You can’t even copy/paste that out in to an editor or something to do a search. Logging is vital to debugging a program and the more you write the harder it gets to debug. Verse is a buggy system it seems and finding when and how it fails is VERY VERY hard.

Docs for Verse and UEFN are ok but lack the tips and tricks we find in discord servers or tutorials on YouTube. There should be somebody at Epic that just trolls every single Discord server and notes down all these tips and posts them in an organized fashion. It blows my mind that a multi billion dollar company isn’t on top of that. That said, what do I know of the inner workings of the company. They’ve made a cool tool and I guess it’s just hard.

My demotivation comes from building out all the code and expecting things to work based on the comments in the digest file, to then only discover that they don’t actually work, or they don’t work all the time. Then it’s test test test test and the testing is truly painful as upload and instantiation of the instance of the game takes FOREVER… these are the times I question my choice as I watch the time tick away just sitting around waiting.

I do feel that some people that complain should hop over to indie dev in the engine of their choice, Fortnite dev isn’t what they need. So I often wonder how that balance works for many, including myself and my clients.

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Thank you very much for your extremely informative and also sad post.

I used to work at a well known game testing studio for the creative section around the time the epic, and also headache worthy caos build was about to be released. Avatar wise, maybe a year before the 1st star wars characters or Dead pool came into existence. Oh and i am the dude that strongly suggested selectable individual thumbnails for each gallery asset because before we absolutly had to ‘Bomb’ the WHOLE gallery onto the grid to select just one item … then deleeted everything else one by one that wasn’t needed then rinse and repeat for whatever else or if you realized you forgot an asset in the gallery you just deleted .

Where am i going with this and what is the relevency?

I just re-started 3 weeks ago to touch fortnite where as b4 … not with a 9 foot pole because well you know … it was my job and i don’t bor do i want to bring or do any work at home lol. But Creative was different … with every new device that came out came with it tons of new and awesome fun, funny, scary, sad, riveting, incredibly: ? "HOW THE HELL DID YOU THINK OF THAT! " ideas !

Even amogst the team testers we built awesome short litlle tidbits of fun in the simplest of settings. ( Oh yeah and there was no memory meter yet … that came at the saahad to make our own maps to test every asset and the main if not the only reason was to re-create some of my map ideas i had during my employment there.

Now mostly everything you just said in your post remided me of all the un-fun Job related tideous mindless chores we had to do from time to time and it was just fine cause i was getting paid for it.

As i said i have only been back playing for about 3 weeks as of nov 14th 2023 ( and got into the devs club 2 days ago ) I even bought a game pass WOOT WOOT ! I

I those three weeks i have been obssed with constructing my main map and it’s absolutley the most fun i have had in a looonnngggg time with something.

But boy did your post burst my bubble. The fact that after importing that map to the "dark side ’ and finaly get my first look at it… and understood ■■■■ all for a little while. so i messed around with t for a bit … deceided i was not at all up to par with the software so reimported back to creative. ( yes i made copies beforehand).

Well i did not notice it art but the meme was more then maxed wheras before the import it was at aroubd 40k/100k. Besides the new devicesi only used assets ( i will say 99% justto be safe ) were old assets from 3 years ago. So now all this talk about searching … reconfig, findingand correcting replacing will amout to hours and hours , and hours of finding on my part since i am very new , berren even with knowlege aobut uefn. Top that with the seeming less lack of support for fixer uppers or for bugs and glitches like i have seen quite a few memebers writing in their posts.

I only have 2 almost completed maps ( mechanics work fine … i’m just at the fun part of decorarting, creating ambiance and what not. So my heart goes out to ALL OF YOU that must have so much more and are in a panic just thinking of the hours spending prcioustime in a mindless // well like iI mentioned b4.

So ima keep my fingers crossed but sadly not building anything until i know whats what and it does not involve a major future unpaid hugely man-houred revamp on my part lol .

Anyways thats enough outta me … hope things take a turn for the better for all of us. At leat i had some fun with a couple of friends on my map so yeah we can still do that …

By the way why can i play my map with no glitches or lags or graphic probs thru the hub but would prob cause probs with the other things … ouf my head us gonna explode and maybe i am understanding this all wrong… cant wait for the skies to clear !
Take care everyone … and EPIC … IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT AND BRING MY CREATIVE BACK !! LOL

Haha, loved reading your post, congrats on the game pass, some great games in there.

The goal would be to allow new and returning creators like yourself see UEFN and it instantly clicks. Having worked since Creative day 1 and transitioned to UEFN, many were surprised I liked UEFN more, knowing how much I love UGC in general, but the answer is that UEFN is a hybrid that allows both Creative peeps/Gamedevs to create whatever they want, offering multiple workflows that do the same thing. Some conflict happens when going in between, but that’s the beauty of hybrid workflows, similar to how AI generation and painting are a hybrid workflow and used together are very powerful.

Anyhow, back to the point, Epic needs to have more UX testing based on Creative transition, and start fixing old leftovers from previous Unreal Engines that today with the new standards don’t make sense anymore. We live in the age of automation and when I have to setup 7 things for every texture I import, I get annoyed because my job isn’t to optimize textures, but to make a game. The engine’s job is to optimize textures.

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Then i would suggest that there should be some sort of JIRA for uefn or a common database where people can drop working scripts or succesful feats of programming if there isnt one already. Probably is one around this community somwhere maybe but i am still fairly new and still exploring this community.

There’s a snippets area if that’s what you’re thinking

Thanks for your feedback and that of others here. We hear you and have plans to address many of the limitations you’ve called out over time. That said, UEFN is designed as an editor first rather than a game first. We have lots of plans to reduce friction, integrate better with the hybrid editor and in-world experience, and provide more powerful Creative tools that should eventually help in these areas including allowing people to eventually author Creative devices from UEFN. However, we do not have plans to make the UEFN editor as immersive as playing the game - many of the editor workflows are optimized for content creation will always be different than the in game Creative workflows. Please continue using Creative mode if immersion is one of your primary goals. There are creation workflows you can adopt that allow you to use both UEFN and Creative side by side. Although bugs do creep in, we have plans to continue improving both UEFN and Creative mode by adding features both you and others have called out. We will continue to fix bugs in both.

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No worries, I didnt expect the interface to become as the game, its good to have both to appeal to multiple crowds, I like the side-by-side interface/live edit more anyway since I can multitask different tools in real time. I put together a list of the things that would mostly help with friction so there are more actionable items to take away from this: Making UEFN a supertool (Part 2 of feedback)

I agree mostly as well… this has been a miserable experience and the UEFN is short of even alpha status imo. Debugging tools have been around for so long, why aren’t they better? 30 years of dev nearly and have used debug tools 20 years ago better than what’s offered with UEFN. I have a map I’m trying to get finished that “Memory Calculator” shows max at 160k but results only add up to 90k. Just seems more like a push to get anime and mickey mouse content than to fix bugs. Even in-game, problems persist for quite a while. Sub-par for software companies. It’s sad that every day I keep thinking, just go back to Unity. I’ve never had the problems I’m having and the time I’ve spent on 1 map so far, trying to debug and optimize, I could have had beta status at least on an equivalent project in unity. Everyday is just a closer decision to “walking away” from UEFN entirely.

I agree!

UEFN needs to be easier to use and learn.