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[Twitch] 4.6 Roadmap - Oct. 23, 2014

I would like to see content examples expanded. For example, the Third person shooter example should include shooting and a melee move. This should be updated for BP and C++. Are there any plans to expand the basic demos?

Thanks,

Hi,
Is there any news about large world support for version 4.6 or beyond?

Hey Guys, so what did I miss lol :wink:

So yea, 4.6, alright, lol! In all seriousness though, I’m really looking forward to it and Epic has done an amazing job here with their constant progress, trying to make all of us happy with putting the effort into the things that matter most and on top of everything else, delivering a strong experience that defines the industry standard on what a AAA Next Generation Engine should be. I love the progress and yes, I think if there are areas that need addressing that could create some very bad use cases for others, but they have been diligently putting the man-power into getting it done and genuinely want the best for the engine.

I think we can all agree that everyone’s use cases in the engine are different and some more or less than others could be experiencing some instability, crashing, performance loss or just some accessibility things that may not be there that probably should be. Not everyone will encounter the issues and having been a developer for a very long time, I know not everyone will see certain bugs and that a specific set of occurrences could need to happen for someone to be affected by it. Heck, many people complained about glitches in Alien: Isolation and I didn’t see one till the end for a split second :smiley:

I think we should however, and I’m saying this lightly cuz a bunch of us are buddies, but let’s try to have a little more respect here just in case there are issues that are impeding others that maybe aren’t affecting us. Just saying… if the tables were turned, you’d want the same level of respect from the other side of the coin. And those would be glad to give it and in no way are we that selfish :wink:

Yes, I had a pretty long post about instability. It was primarily due to the problem that does actually still exist that Hourences pointed out, which is the evil beast that is the Circular Dependency in Blueprints. I’ve been programming for a long time but I chose to you use BPs to quickly prototype things with C++ for small cases. Because I’m a programmer, I tried to do a lot of abstraction in my BPs with inheritance and base classes as BPs, that I ran into probably every circular issue in the engine that still exists, and let me tell you… it’s a nightmare, lol! I’ve had unexplainable bugs, corrupt files that I’ve lost and god knows what else lol. Take it from me, having lost BPs due to corruption and even though I had auto-saves from the day before, that was major time lost from my work, it can happen and I feel bad for Rama to have that perf issue.

I do a lot of posting on AnswerHub and the team is companionate and really cares to help out. So far, a lot of those issues have been resolved however, I have a lot of issues and random errors that don’t make sense right now but some seem to disappear as I update to the newer builds. We all have to understand the nature of the beast and that Epic completely rebuilt the entire engine from UE3 -> UE4 and for what they have accomplished, it’s pretty uncanny and a monumental amount of work. Also since this engine is still just gaining ground compared to the previous status quo of where UE3 was at the end of the console generation, there is a lot of room for growth.

Now I personally noticed a major difference from 4.4.3 to 4.5 and I still have glaring issues, but it’s getting better all the time. Of course, there are more issues left/arrising and they are more than smart enough to know if they are getting ahead of themselves where fixing those issues in the future will be very hard. I think they got this :wink: and I’m starting to feel much better about things. I talked with Adam Davis and it seems like they’ve honed in on the last bits of the circular dependency issue and for that, he mentioned re-writing the custom linker so that may resolve a lot for everyone. I do think UMG needs some help but they pushed hard to get that into a production-ready state so I’m sure a lot of the usability things will be coming in 4.6.

Rama, I know you probably have a bat-phone to the team, jk :wink: and I know they’ll get someone on it to profile it for you to find where the extra render time is going. I’m sure they’ll nail it out buddy and hope the projects are going well nonetheless.

(Sigh)… smallB, come on. Please don’t take this disrespectfully but I’ve had to chat with you prior to having respect on the forums, and from what I’ve seen, you’ve been pretty cool which I think is great as it’s positive and productive, so kudos there. I understand you are also new to game development, that’s great. But you have a tendency to repeat something in an immature way. Perfect example is posting the above and also posting it twice. I’m not sure if you are also young as well but please understand, you are getting the most transparent access to the best game engine in the industry for developing games bar none. Epic, and you should spend time reading up on them, have accomplished and attained so much and have a team of valuable, passionate developers with the best skills in the industry and absolutely know how to do it right, innovate at the same time, and then setting the bar for everyone else to catch up to when it comes to the engine.

You need to understand, it’s not a toy just as C# is not a “toy” language and you might want to drop that word as it can make someone look young and unexperienced. UE4 is everything a AAA engine should strive to become. Because they had to re-write the entire engine structure, it will undoubtably show issues to the early adopters. It’s up to us, to communicate those issues to the devs at Epic, and let them decide the best way to handle it. I know you are trying to bring the focus to the people who are having issues and that’s very considerate of you. In the future, just think about how you want to communicate it to others and how to also be respectful of the developers at Epic. I’m sure those guys and gals poured their life into this engine and had lots of crunches where those working on it, couldn’t spend time with their loved ones because they were committed to the industry and giving us, the developers, the best possibly expiernce to develop our next great idea and those are the stories that unless you or I are working at or directly with Epic, we would never hear. For what is such a personal project to many at Epic, that have sacrificed themselves to deliver that for us, probably deserve much better than calling their work of love a toy, ya know? Don’t be that person.

When do you expect the linux editor to be stable?

– QUESTION –
Whatever happened to the plan to share snippets of and/or full Blueprints via multi-select than the engine generates a share-link and puts it into the (Epic) Cloud?

And yes I do agree that 4.6 should really be a bug fix and workflow/tools release with minor to major usability tweaks.

[HR][/HR]
–SUGGESTION–
Would it be out of the question for Epic Games to run a week-long hackathon/Ship It/Epic Friday? Perhaps even bringing the community into the mix and who knows maybe Epic Games might break a Guinness Records or two for good measure :wink:

[HR][/HR]
– Some comments that stand out to me from a quick skim read of this thread –

@McStryker
Hi, there must be some misunderstanding here.
Just to clarify few things:

  1. I do not try to insult anybody, I do respect what Epic’s engineers are doing and I really think they are great at it
  2. Yes, I’m very, very new to game dev, but I’m not new to software development.
  3. I do understand how priviledged we are in having access to such technology - I myself mentioned that on number of occasions.

OK, having said the above, this doesn’t change the fact that UE4 is still at very unstable stage.
To me software (and after all UE4 is just a software of certain kind) which constantly crashes, cannot open previously (last evening) saved packages and what not is not stable.

This shouldn’t be taken as an insult and I never meant it to be taken as such.

I also see world differently to you and for example to Rama guy. He is great and I admire him, but I cannot be happy all the time like he is (or it looks like it anyway). But even he got bit piised off with changes in UE4, so it just show you that everybody has his limits.

I also don’t believe that being Politically Correct is a great way to be. In my world not everyone is doing great stuff, not everyone is great at everything they touch, not everything is beautiful and rosy, and as long as I’m able to express my opinion I will continue to do it, not to insult people, but in hope that somebody will get the message and will try to improve things.

I do love UE4 and the way Epic is trying to work with community. This does not change the fact that UE4 is still at very unstable stage. Would you agree with that?

And as for C# not being toy language? Sure, never said such thing, but it is definitely not for game dev at that level, yet you will find people who claim, that performance is not important (in game dev, you hear that) that C# provides higher abstraction than C++, that this that the other. And what? Am I supposed to just stand and say nothing? Such behavior (passiveness), was cause of first and second war. Stalinizm happened because of such behavior. I know here we are computer folks, and those examples are … but you know I have broader interests than just computers, and knowing what happened and why in world we live in is great thing.

Another thing you mentioned about pouring heart into work. I believe most (if not everybody here) are doing exactly the same. This has two fold meaning:

  1. I am pouring my heart into my game, and if after release this game will not be positively received, will not get good sales etc, surely you don’t expect me to start posting on forum and wherever else: hey, guys, but I’ve put so much work into it and I’ve poured my heart into it, so surely you ought to like it and don’t have any rights to critisize it, right? Wrong. If my game is a failure it is only my fault and nobody’s else.

  2. If I’m pouring my heart into my game and I’m working with unstable software, than I’m sorry but I cannot see it other way than that software is not good enough yet even though has a great potential. It does sabotages my work. Surely this isn’t right and you wouldn’t expect it from software, doesn’t matter how many hearts were poured into it?

Best regards
smallB

Rather than put things on the cloud, it would be nice if when you crtl+c it saves the text necessary to generate that blueprint to the os clipboard. then you could copy it into a broswer/chat/email or save a text file somewhere. Then someone else can copy the text and past it into the eventgraph and be turned into nodes.

This is how nuke ( vfx compositing software) works and is incredibly useful for sharing graphs.

Other things I would like to know are

  • the future of paper 2d
  • how is forward rendering for pixel depth sorting for translucent materials coming?
  • c++/gameplay framework docs
  • more compiling time speed increases please!

So just because you complain about stability (even though you can’t even be precise and point to what the problem is) you’re a hero and the rest of us is just afraid of being politically incorrect?
Get off your high horse. Most active users on this forum provide much more constructive criticism than you do. All you’re doing is saying it’s a “toy” and that it’s unstable without ever saying anything constructive.
Since you think you’re such a hero, then maybe you should help by actually pointing to what needs to be changed and what the stability issues are, rather than just complain like a hurt kid.
You’re not providing anything.

@Sitrec
Surely you’ve read my previous posts?
I mentioned:

Stability of software with regards to crashes - this needs to be improved
Stability of Editors menu
Stability of API

And here we go again. At this point it looks like trolling ;s

Twitch will be hot tonight
Nothing more passion for EU4 here :stuck_out_tongue:

All I see is crashes, which for the most part are self inflicted. But I do agree that the software sometimes crash unprovoked, but not much at all anymore.
The rest is just not related to stability what so ever, no matter how much you want it to be.
And even if they were, you need to say what you want Epic to change, constructive criticism, look that up.
You can’t just go on moaning about the menu and API without saying what’s wrong with it and what you want them to change.

For the love of hell!
Did you see breaking changes between 4.5 and 4.4 ?!?

That means UE4 (software after all) is on very unstable stage. I don’t say I don’t like UE4 (I love it as a matter of fact), I don’t say it’s weak or anything like that, all I’m saying is that UE4 at the current stage is very unstable as a software.

If you were using Word, and every month or so they would make changes that prevent you from opening documents from previous version, how would you feel about it?!
If you were using Word, and after saving document with some strange unicode character, you wouldn’t be able to read that document again, what would you say about this software?!

@inside
"And here we go again. At this point it looks like trolling ;s "
yes, you are trolling by posting non-constructive, pointless posts!

No I have not experienced anything breaking the engine since the new 4.5 version, it have been working great for our projects with lots of new features.
I hear navmesh is having some issues with lag, that’s it as far as I know.
That’s one feature out of thousands, I don’t consider one bug warranting calling the engine a “toy”.
There are few softwares this advanced that doesn’t face bugs with updates, since you’re so experienced with softwares I thought you would know that.
Comparing it to not being able to open documents in word is truly exaggerating it.

You still haven’t pointed out the problems with the menu and api though, I guess you were just talking out of your *** since you keep avoiding these questions.

I think I have the same view on all the points you made and want to complement for the way you wrote it :slight_smile:

Would also like to add my thoughts and perspective regarding posts about “stability issue”. 2 actually.

My first perspective is perhaps generally accepted and understood, its about that because every computer has different configuration on both hardware and software it makes hard to find all the bugs before a public release. Actually I would say while going out on a limb that its rather impossible :slight_smile:
Epics own QA can only do so much before initial (minor) release, rest is done with the community/users feedback and bug reports as patch releases. (z in x.y.z)
Interestingly what Epic has done for 4.5 is releasing a preview build accessible from the launcher to catch some of the bugs that Epic perhaps wouldn’t have done without the community, for the minor release instead into the patch releases resulting in better 4.5.0 release experience.
As I said this is what’s perhaps generally accepted and understood.

My second perspective is perhaps not so clear and present in our minds (or existing at all :D), it’s about that some thinks that 4.x.0 release quality is a good minor release while others find it lacking. This is because that we, the users, have different needs and sets the bar differently, we must understand and respect this both ways.
Some find that a 4.x.0 should be as good as a 4.x.1 or perhaps even as good as a 4.x.2 quality release is today. Here we, the users, have different thoughts about it I guess and to add more complexity and a headache to this story is that some user experience the builds differently because of their own hardware & software configuration as explained on first perspective! :slight_smile:

Currently one way to go is that you, as a user, should determine for yourself and not for others what level of quality release you set the bar and stick to that. If you prefer a more stable version wait until first or second patch release (i.e. 4.x.1 or 4.x.2) or read the forums and check the temperature.
Otherwise for the future there are two other options for Epic to go with that I can think of:
First option, if we insist on better initial minor releases (4.x.0) we have to reasonably go with 2 or more preview releases and longer/slower development time I guess.
Second option if really really really needed is that Epic introduces LTS (long term support) versions perhaps once every year which might slow down the current main branch due to resources spent on two versions.

I’d second this. It would be great to be able to use render layers to control post effects or general look of the game. It’s also great for experimentation as you can apply effects to specific layers rather than having to make the effect in a material then set up that material to apply to all the relevant objects. Understandably, it would come at a performance cost, but being able to do a pass by pass composition of the visuals would be a godsend.

I wasn’t talking about bugs. Every soft has bugs, something that big as UE4 will have bugs. This is not the point. So it is like you are talking out of your *** or you are reading with your ***, that you cannot understand what I’m talking about.
If you read https://forums.unrealengine.com/showthread.php?49302-Unreal-Engine-4-5-Released! you will see what changes are breaking and maybe you will understand what I’m on about.

Don’t get me wrong. I love UE4, I love Epic, I have utmost respect for engineers working there and their skills. This isn’t the point and I would never dream about insulting anybody.

The ONLY thing I’m saying is that UE4 at this stage is still very unstable, and I’m not talking about crashes, for the love of hell!

I also love changes to UE4, additions improvements etc.

Hi dokipen! You should already be able to do this - if you select some nodes and copy them, then open a text editor and paste, you will get the text representation of those nodes for easy sharing. :slight_smile:

Oh gosh! We got breaking changes in software which is under constant development. What a surprise!
The only software that doesn’t have breaking changes is the one, that is no longer developed.

As matter of fact, some changes break my code. Did I complained about it ? No. Why ? Because that change in engine code was good for future.
Does fixing it on my side costed me mutch ? Oh well I maybe lost 20 minutes of my life. How terrible!

Tl;dr very unstable is not good phrase. Stop using it.

actually I have to agree a little with him.

for me it’s not about crashes, it’s about partially working features and the way they are announced: “new feature: this!”. coming from such a high end engine, to me it sounds like a new thing that’s tested and ready for production (or at least completely usable) while half the time it’s an “early access” to a feature
a few examples:

  • Imposters came in 4.3 and to this day the ‘billboard’ part of the shader is not working (and the setup shown in the documentation varies from the one shown on some AnswerHub post). On top of that it came out as an “engine feature” while in fact it’s a standalone project (meaning you need to move your assets back and forth, not practical) and the documentation didn’t really match the workflow (so it was pretty much a tutorial, and a broken one)
  • Animation retargetting came on 4.4 with documentation that was matching 4.5 (and you couldn’t really use it)
  • Media Playback and Capture came with 4.5. the release notes were saying “you can play streaming video on UI widgets and textured objects” which sounds very nice, while the forum topic states “The feature is not quite production ready yet” and shows that only the .wmv file format is supported.
  • Landscape Mountains came out as an official Marketplace asset to “showcase what you can do with the Landscape and foliage tools in Unreal Engine 4” while in fact the Landscape tool was pretty much only used to import content made in WorldMachine (which brings the underlying message that even they know their own Landscape tools are vastly inferior), and then many people found out the thing is so big you need 16 GB of RAM or else lightmass crashes if you try to build it

other times it’s just things that don’t work (like SceneCapture actors still can’t use PostProcess blendables), and don’t get fixed until much time later (like a “Keep Simulation Changes” crash I had in April, and wasn’t fixed until 4.3), or just don’t get put enough effort to (something as basic as Translucency sorting is still as bad as engines from 10 years ago)
lastly, every release breaks something in C++. like you say it’ usually around 20 minutes to fix (thanks to Rama’s usual notes), but nowadays most C++ tutorials are not even followable at all without a good number of visits to AnswerHub
on top of that every new feature bloats the editor so it becomes increasingly slower (unlike the pre-4.0 betas)

I didn’t really come here to complain. I know development changes the software but a “just bear with it” attitude doesn’t seem too apropriate here. yes it’s a great piece of software, but it’s still a piece of software that people are paying for.
I love Unreal, I only think that Epic should slow down a bit and make the existing features faster, more solid and more stable, before moving on to the new features