There is already something like that. http://fpscreator.thegamecreators.com/order.php
is probably the best engine, to learn the aspects of how level design works, as well as getting an idea of how the mechanics work for game development. I surely wouldnt use for anything other than educational use, but it’s easy and fun to use.
Unfortunately, Bio-Hazard, I feel I must disagree with you a bit. You do make some pretty valid points in that many of these people have no business plan at all and dream big. The truth is, everyone dreams big. You obviously did too at one time, otherwise you wouldn’t have listed all of your experience. Game development is a very competitive industry, but not everyone in these forums are here to compete in it. Some people play with the engine as a hobby or create content for the marketplace. Others like to keep up with the progress and research going into the engine itself.
Is it too much to actually enjoy working on something? I understand bills must be paid at the end of the day, but you basically make it sound like anyone working with UE4 is just wasting their time/money. You do realize in the license agreement that all they are required to do is purchase a single month (~$20), and they are free to use that version of the engine for as long as they’d like to develop. opens the door to a lot of people trying to learn a bit about game development.
Unfortunately, I took a different path in school than you did. I have a degree in Biology and a minor in Chemistry. Does mean that I should go back to school to learn the necessary skills to develop a game? Personally, I’d rather do the research and accept the challenge with UE4. Everything comes at a cost, but personally I’d rather enjoy myself working on an indie game that is deemed a failure in your eyes than to be dealing with the malpractice lawsuits and on-call work of being a doctor (which is what I was originally going to do with my degree).
I do apologize if I came across as rude. You no doubt have insight into the industry, but I think you are stereotyping everyone into what you believe game development is all about.
Thing is, Epic counts on all the things you’ve mentioned.
Very great points, but I am here to learn. Engine is more of a learning spike than it a project development engine. Why do I say that well look at engines that AAA games use, they don’t sell it to just anyone, why? because its too precious to them, to have people like “us” turn it into something smaller than it is. And that is a true fact none the less, how would I know? Because I worked with the Battlefield production and they used an engine called Frostbite, that is only given to very few studios to use. Another prime example is “Sony”, UE4 offers developers a to make console games, does that mean I can get on a make a console game and release it next year? HELL NO! You have to get the Source code from Sony personally that allows you to publish the console game. If anyone and everyone could make a game than there would be no use for half of the gaming industry, companies wouldn’t last, because people would make games they want to play and wouldn’t spend money on games, that is how the science of the game world goes.
I never said that it was a waste of time or money, all I stated is that game development is near impossible on the success level. Many people would argue that they have made some cool games, and projects that people play. But on a success level it was nothing but a failure in the industries eyes. I highly encourage who ever has the passion to go and pursue these types of engines and learn and experience. The only fault to , is the hopes and dreams people have when it comes to the engines use. People come here expecting to learn the engine and then develop a AAA game, when in reality they would have no , because the bar is set so high in the industry nothing they make will beat out the already extremely successful companies.
You mentioned that you want to avoid the lawsuits of being a doctor, but news flash. industry has more lawsuits that you could possible imagine, it doesn’t matter what you say or do, every corner has a lawsuit. In industry everyone is out to get you, for example the very famous Minecraft created a game called “Scrolls” was then later sued by Bethesda on behalf of “Elder Scrolls”. Indie game company was sued for 1.5 million dollars after using a sound from another game that was made over 20 years ago. If your characters even look anywhere close to another character your sued. If your title might sound or be close to another title, your sued. If you use a single model/texture or sound without permission your sued. If you work on another game with friends and you don’t have contracts and documents to prove ownership your screwed, why? Because I can go take it from you and then copyright it and it’s all mine.
It’s such a cut throat industry and people with high hopes and visions are what these engines present, look at Cryengine and Unity. They are full of thousands and thousands of ideas and projects, yet look at the success rate on all these games maybe 1% of about 5,000 proposed games will make some profit or be extremely successful. 1% of 10,000 proposed games will actually be finished on an industry level scale.
Im not saying to crush dreams or stereotype because I didn’t stereotype at all, I am clearly stating the reality of game design and its level of success. I encourage everyone to try, but to those who come on with high hopes or intentions to get paid thousands of dollars to work they have come to the wrong place and will be met with failure for sure.
When I say I don’t say it to be cocky, but I know what I am talking about. Been dealing with kind of stuff for many years now, and have seen about 785 games year never make it and that includes professional studio games never even make it to post.
Impressive credentials. Just out of interest, what were you doing at these companies? In your own recruitment thread you were talking about level design, but here you’re mentioning writer, hiring director and HR manager.
I understand where you are coming from, but failure is part of life. Some people look at their flaws and correct them. Others will become upset and leave. Frostbite is a great engine, but many engines nowadays are nothing more than a strong rendering engine with a set of tools to allow developers to rapidly add assets/artwork to logic. I moved to UE4 from Torque 3D due to the tools that UE4 had available at the time of its launch. Many of these proprietary engines are created with specific in-house needs in mind. Ask anyone, UDK always felt like an FPS engine because it strongly met the needs of a first person shooter game.
The truth is, engine gives me headaches like any other engine. Frostbite will give people headaches too. Things will need to be tailored to fit each project’s specific needs and goals. The game industry is competitive, and giving away IP like candy isn’t what is going to fix it at all. What I can say, though is what happened at the Epic Games meetup at Bottlerocket Studios in Dallas, TX a few months ago. I was one of the people that had the pleasure of going there and getting to talk with the developers that attended it. The guys from Epic were friendly and more than willing to answer the billions of questions that I had written down to ask them.
Personally, I’ve found that education is the fastest solution to most any problem in an industry. While I am not saying your time is wasted at all by posting in these forums, perhaps a blog or guide for new developers written by you would be more beneficial? You seem interested in persuading people to your viewpoint, and I think many new developers would be happy to read through a walkaround of the industry and how things work. Showing them common pitfalls with documentation, presentation, and marketing would help them tremendously.
Interesting concept if thinking Star Trek technology and when “a” fundamental shift does occur that makes it possible for anyone to make the kinds of games they would like to play or share with others how would such a shift manifest it’s self?
Granted just my opinion again but I believe shift has already begun as it’s happened before not only in the game industry but in all industries that involve some form of entertainment and there are the usual signs that indicates history is about to repeat it’s self.
One just has to look at whats happening in the music industry. The top five labels are doing all they can to protect their cash cow that includes works they don’t even own, so yeah chances are one would get sued, but there are other avenues of distribution opening up for the artists who produce the “works” that does not need some big name studio to stand behind it.
So in my opinion again sure being able to make a game just because you want to make a game is going to happen if you remove the internal politics as to terms and conditions on which a game can be made if the focus is “only” on profit margins and the bottom line.
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I understand where you are coming from, but failure is part of life.
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I agree that failure is a part of life, but not in the industry it isn’t. If you fail in the industry heads will role, and by that I mean people are screamed at and fired with no questions asked. With a legit production you fail, your gone faster than you can blink an eye. Because time is money, and failure is the worst thing within the industry, and when failure occurs people are fired.
I am a level designer when it comes to game production. EA Games, Blizzard and Bethesda I was a level designer. But I also have a major in both Business Management, and Businesses management for Entertainment from Full Sail University, minored in Human Resources and Journalism. As a hobby I took classes at Full Sail for both Game Production and Film Production.
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Personally, I’ve found that education is the fastest solution to most any problem in an industry. While I am not saying your time is wasted at all by posting in these forums, perhaps a blog or guide for new developers written by you would be more beneficial? You seem interested in persuading people to your viewpoint, and I think many new developers would be happy to read through a walkaround of the industry and how things work. Showing them common pitfalls with documentation, presentation, and marketing would help them tremendously.
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Very good idea, I would be very interested in helping developers and new developers understand the ins and outs of the industry and how it works. It’s a very dark place and theres only so many ways to be successful.
I was referring more to failure from what you were addressing here, indie project failure. Some of these projects will go on and do well. People will develop portfolios and get picked up by the AAA sponge. Others will realize they don’t enjoy it as much as they thought and will quit because the time investment isn’t worth it. In the end, you’ll still have the guys just playing with the fun tools that are available. Coming up with fun things to do with blueprints or bringing in libraries to test in UE4. Some people need to have a small developer project collapse to understand how things fit together.
Nice, you sure got around in the industry. It seems to me perhaps you got a bit too much of AAA treatment because you sound rather grim. I’ve never been in that industry but from what I read over the years I can absolutely picture what you’re describing. You sound a bit like me when I talk about business software, which is what I’ve spent my time on these past 8 or so years.
However, having spent so much time on AAA you may have missed what happened in the rest of the industry. Indie development is bigger than ever. Pair that with AAA apparently being increasingly impossible to fund without making a loss at the end due to insanely high production costs and you can see a huge shift on the horizon, or already happening. Why does Epic suddenly cater to indies? Cryengine following suite? Valve probably cooking something up too? Why does Autodesk make an affordable version of Maya? None of them want to rely on AAA when (if) it goes down. Why does Microsoft buy Minecraft and push Project Spark? Because they envision a future where the gamer becomes more and more involved in the creation process. There are many such indicators.
These are great times to get into game development and your pessimism isn’t helping. It’s also a bit unwarranted since your yourself are looking to create your own dream game and you’re recruiting people in the very forum that you claim has no real pros because they would be recruited elsewhere. You are a pro and you’re here.
I know it’s not easy to stay positive after the industry has shaped you and thrown you around. Try to get that sense of wonder back that some of the less experienced people here still get when they talk about their imaginative games. After all games are more than just business. In fact wouldn’t it be nice if creating games would become less of a business and more of an art form again? Let people make their naive mistakes and don’t look down on them patronizingly. Don’t treat them as if they all want to make AAA games or get into the AAA industry. I don’t think most of them do. I for one sure don’t.
I’m not asking to stand idly by as people proclaim “something much bigger than GTA 5” with a bunch of free time developers, as has recently happened in the recruitment forum. Some of those ideas are just too mind boggling to ignore and it’s probably wise to inform the person just how insanely unrealistic their expectations are. But you are taking it too far here.
Indie development has always been big no matter what, its indie development and thats the meaning of indie games. If indie games produced AAA games, they wouldn’t be indies. And I disagree with you, as I was once an indie developer myself, I spent years on small projects working my way to the top and now working with the pros.
You said I took it too far, but in reality thats the “truth” and the truth hurts because being honest can be brutal and depending on how you take it, that should help you understand how it works. I am not telling a single person to give up and not pursue . But what I am saying, is people need to realize is an indie driven forum, and those who come seeking glory of instant gratification are setting themselves up for failure.
I’m not here to put people down, I am here to help guide people and express to them how things work and the truth of the gaming industry, is it a walk in the park. hell no. Is the truth going to be gratifying, it depends how you take it. Many people here come here with the mentality that they will create the next best thing, lets drop the charades and just face the fact that about 99% of people are here for that reason, of course they have the passion for game design but they come looking to create a project that everyone will love.
Before working with the major companies I worked with numerous Indie studios as Project Lead, and Studio Manager. Almost all projects failed because the team lacked in many areas. And thats where 99% of all these potential projects will hit, they will get to a part they just cannot possibly pass through. So to assume I am “brainwahsed” by the industry is a very useless comment. I mean let’s be real, the professional industry is much more daunting and relentless than the indie world. So I have seen it all, and know exactly how it plays out.
I wish the best of luck to all developers as its a very difficult task to produce a game from start to finish, but seeing harsh comments that put down peoples ideas and thoughts because they aren’t going to work for free or do that type of work for that specific pay is so idiotic it’s almost a joke to me. I see people like that get fired so fast and never work again because of their idiotic mistakes. Everyone here should be honored to work for free or for low pay, if they dare walk into a studio like that their *** will be on the streets never to work in the industry again.
You make a lot of blanket statements like that. Can you tell us why you’re wanting to create your own horror game, recruiting people in forum, when you know that the whole endevaour will fail anyway?
I was going to post something to reply to BIO-HAZARD, but I just don’t think person is real. I don’t see how someone can be that contradictory and so inflammatory of things so minor. So instead I’ll address the original post as it’s a little more reasoned.
Yes, there are a lot people picking tools these days that help with game development thinking that they’re going to dive in and make something on the scale of a AAA game. usually comes from the fact that they have a game or idea in their head that they want to play, without any idea of what it would require in both time and expertise. Unfortunately, there’s not a whole lot you can do to convince them that it’s a fool’s errand. However, the easiest way to learn is to try and fail. Consistently, I find that most people at the end of a project, whether it reaches it’s goals or is cancelled, have pretty much exponentially improved. I can produce more content, more code, and more art in a week now than I could in a month a year ago. And sure, I could have finished smaller, less ambitious projects to reach point, but I would have been working on something I find less appealing and there’s no reason to believe that I would have learned anything more.
That said, I will warn against people who, with no experience, seek to draw people into their ideas, with promises and timelines that have no basis in reality. That’s something else entirely. If you want to stride blindly into your own ignorance, that’s a great and empowering thing to do, just don’t try and sell others on the journey by pretending to have a map.
My goal isn’t to create a major AAA game, recruitment is to pose as a learning curve to help give direction. Will it succeed, I don’t know. You are all sitting here claiming that I’m telling everyone is going to fail, but obviously many of you cannot read between the lines and understand the main point. isn’t to shoot people down, it’s to show people how it works, its to give people the wake up call that those who come here looking to create the next GTA, or offer their services for an astronomical pay is just absurd. I do hope people will use their brains and start to understand the main point of topic, rather than letting anger take control. The truth hurts and if is how you take it, none of you will make it in the industry.
Well there you go. Just like, oh let’s use your own number just for fun, 99% of people here.
Excuse me but for someone who studied journalism you don’t seem to get your point across very well. Or maybe there was no point. So far I’ve mostly read ranting and no single piece of actual advice.
Consider your wake up call received, although I’m not entirely sure we needed it (see first point). Now as for letting anger take control… you may wanna reread your own posts.
I wouldn’t say his posts are angry. Arrogant and negative, yes, but not really angry.
Someone yelling at people like ?
The anger claim was his while I definitely got the feeling that if anyone is angry here, it’s him. Mostly at the cut throat industry out there, I assume. Or himself for being part of it.
Which is apparently (with good reason imo) in question in one of his other posts. So I’m taking these posts of his with a grain of salt.