Wow I stepped away for a day to go to an engagement party and there was a lot of activity. I’ve only read through the one page and just wanted to comment so far on what I’ve read before I lose the thoughts:
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The point of the thread was to discuss this overall situation. The title was attention grabbing on purpose but the first post never says anyone is ripping anyone off or the prices are necessarily too high, though some are. I’m glad the discussion is happening and views are being expressed, by consumers and by producers alike.
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Uprentiss has some valid points, if more so that the consumer has a right to ask and understand. At the same time they have a right to agree or not even after the fact. Please keep this in mind when rebutting, since you’re at all times representing your business.
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Someone mentioned that in this thread packages were asked to be lowered to $2 or even free. I either missed that post completely or this is simply not true. No one asked for anything for free and anyone has continuously said the prices should reflect the package. What’s being said is that the amount of time put into creating the asset has a bearing on the price but can not be the determining factor. In fact it shouldn’t even be in the top 5 factors when considering price. Again keep in mind that this is a time investment ONCE and the package is resold x amount of times. Sampling the product virtually would be helpful for sure. If the system is something simple but legit then the price should be lower than something that is more complicated or offers more. Models priced differently than blueprint or C++ systems etc. Not all packages are $15 no matter what. Thats just silly and that wasn’t mentioned as a “should do” at all from what I read. My preference was a “hobbyist” “license”, for a fraction of the sale price. So if it’s $100, make the hobbyist price $25. If the sale price is 20, make the hobbyist one $5. While this may not be the end result best solution as mentioned by a staff (rightly so) it would be incredibly difficult to implement, it’s a point of view to be considered.
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Nowhere in the description of the urban city does it say you can enter the buildings correct. Nowhere in the description does it say there are interiors. I know how to model things at a basic level and I do know how long it would take to make interiors for each building. I was NOT expecting that. I was expecting to be able to place a building and then walk into the doorway of the building. Yes I was indeed. On the inside I was expecting the walls on the inside to EXIST and be able to see out the windows. Thats it. I’d create my own interior structure. Once can’t use subtractive space to cut out doorways on models so in the end, they’re just props. Not functional. I would have preferred them to have just left the doorways cut out at least!
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Also, I wouldn’t expect support for any package under $50. I’d expect a quick how-to explaining the structure of the blueprint or something. But I wouldn’t expect continuous support or even updates really. I’d leave it up to the seller to decide if they want to go above and beyond on their personal time to hope sales would reflect that. But I wouldn’t expect it, nor complain. At the same time I was looking at 's Ledge Climbing system… but from the reviews it looks like he’s not around anymore… and thats something since I don’t know how hes done it at all… I might want help on… and will not buy now since I dont know if I could get it to work on latest versions of UE4
EDIT after reading the rest:
**SE_JonF **: You are an example of a producer who responds professionally, thank you.
I think people need to stop throwing around “triple a” and “X + hours” because at the end of the day in this particular scenario its not fully relevant and before you freak out, let me explain. As mentioned by someone already, (paraphrasing) “all of these people asking for lower prices really don’t know the amount of work that REALLY goes into doing this”. Lets say you hit the nail right on the head there. Yep… none of us know anything about how long it takes to do any of the stuff you do. Ok fine. But at the end of the day you’re selling YOUR products to THOSE people. So what happens now? There isn’t just 2-3 people here thinking “well theres gotta be a better way, cuz I’m not happy paying over $100 for this right now”, there’s just 2-3 VOICING it. And telling the few that voice it and the rest that think it to just not buy it then, is only hurting yourselves.
If we didn’t give a sh*t about what you do and didn’t appreciate it, we wouldn’t have bothered discussing it to begin with. We simply wouldn’t bother buying it at all and then where are you? You aren’t making assets for Rockstar or Naughty dogg. If I go and take Nathan Drake model and animations and use them in my game… guess what… I get sued… because those were made for a triple a game specifically. They weren’t made for general release. You can say your stuff is triple a quality til you’re blue in the face and it doesnt change the fact that 1000 other people have the same models, same characters etc… you are NOT developing your assets for triple a companies guys, you’re developing them for us. We are the one’s you’re trying to sell them too and we’re here trying to tell you what we’d like to see and feel from that transaction. You don’t have to listen. And you can continuously tell us to get lost if you’d like… but thats not really the best way to handle it.
Lets say Linkin Park spent 3 months working on writing the song “in the end”. Should that be sold on itunes for $50 000 then? No… its sold for 0.99 to 1.99. Because once it’s made… its made. the time investment has been made and it can now be sold an infinite number of times, can I use that song in my game having bought it? yep… I sure can… as long as I don’t release it! IF I want to release it, I have to pay them a fee on top of that. Now unless you’re “linkin park” caliber in your industry, you wouldn’t get “linkin park” usage fee. but I could definitely pay reasonable price for a song by an indie artist to use when I’m ready to release it commercially. A song which I can also purchase in the meantime for .99 to see if it fits what I want first.
We can compare game assets to cars, food, clothes and any other worldly item but realistically it’s not any of those things. We can all accept its it’s own market and it’s not consumed by the majority of humans like the items its compared to.
So there are two main points that have come out of this discussion:
- price of asset at final sale
- preview of asset before sale
to accurately talk about this topic, those must be separated per point.
The question is will more people buy the assets if they’re priced lower? If yes, the next question is will the producer make any more this way had they listed it higher with less sales. Lets say the answer is no.
There is still value to more people having bought your product then fewer. Those are more likely to buy your next product, you’re going to get more feedback and reviews. If less people buy it overall, then you might think there is no market for it at all… and just give up.
As to the quality of the product… its a tough debate. Does a true triple A quality pack of assets deserve a price tag over $100. Well yes, that we will all agree on. Does the hobbyist need a triple A quality product today? no… will they need it when they release their game? … preferably. On the flip side, if you’re the producer, your personal ideology may be to deliver only the highest of quality regardless, who pays for THAT?
I’m not saying I know the answer; the point is not everyone can throw 4K into the hobby and try out all the assets to see what they like.
The preview of assets ahead of time I think everyone agrees is pretty important. So thats a major thing to come out of this… it would help not only ease the mind of the buyer and of course nothing will ever stop the “price is too high” complaints…(which this thread is not)… but it will let the user know what they’re gonna get before buying. It will also allow the users to voice their opinions on the asset before purchasing and let the producer know what they think a fair price should be in this case. There should also be direct ratings and rating systems on the package overview… the forum should be for everyone to ask, comment and rate, the market place direct should be for actual buyers to leave their ratings.
That system alone would help stabilize OR justify the pricing.
John Alcatraz: It is a high level of generosity as mentioned that you support people fully that purchased your product. I actually saw a lot of posts by you helping others on your product when I was searching for info on mini maps. And on that note I can tell you straight up, if you put out another product that I needed or wanted and the price is fair I wouldn’t hesitate to buy it knowing that you’re always around. So that works in your favour for sure. It’s not just lost in the mix and it doesnt make you stupid at all. On that same token, take a look in the threads and answerhub for all the people that haven’t released content and attempt to help people everyday just because they love the scene. I try to help people in answerhub when I know the answers to things whenever I have time to read latest questions. I have been helped lots of times. the people I help don’t pay me, and the people that help me dont get paid… are we all just stupid? No man.
Lastly I’d just like to say, that I spent the last four months making a game in blue prints that isn’t done yet… creep seems to keep me from finishing lol. But a lot of the systems in my game are in the generic shooter recently released, I don’t use steam I use my own external server for WAN MP and I also have a lot of different animations, chars and maps etc… Now I know how much work is involved in making those systems now that I’ve done it all myself. However I was learning BP and a lot of general game programming… etc along the way. If I lost everything and had to do it again from scratch… well it wouldn’t take me 4 months to get to where I am now. It would take me a couple weeks, maybe less. If I wanted to sell my total package now, what hours should I base it on? The first time around? Or the second? The product is the same. (i’ve no intention of selling anything). I’d price it at what I think the consumer can and will pay for it, $30 maybe. Would I sell it to someone for $15 if they said "im going to take all your systems and make my own instead using yours as an example " yes I totally would. Because it will still take them over a month or more to get their product where it is even with my project because they won’t know what any of it does by looking at it. Even if they copy and paste it and get stuff working inside of a month, they most likely still won’t know how to add to it or change anything since they won’t fully understand it anyway since they didn’t build it up they didnt learn how it works… there’s no shortcut to understanding, if someone used my project as a learning tool and learned it all within two months rather than four… great. I got $15 for helping them and some good reviews.