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MMO Understanding

Development Discussion General Discussion
#1

Over the years I see people see the word “MMO” and run for the hills. I wanted to :enlighten: a bit on that meaning, no pun intended. :slight_smile:

As we know MMO means massive Multiplayer Online. I play many FPS games that are MMO’s but not your typical genre of them. They are simply lobby based. You do not need to have thousands of players on screen and running around to be considered an MMO.

If your game has thousands of players online at periods of time over the day, everyday it is still technically an MMO.

If you have few players online at all times it is more or less just an MO. I do not think there is an exact number of players needed to make it techincally an MMO or not but I would imagine quite a few thousand at least. So in light of the term MMO do not fear a MMO project, because it could very well be just a MP game that just happens to have taken off. :slight_smile:

Just a quick look into what actually MMO means. :slight_smile: You can actually make an MMO from little to no budget using this technical logic. Your MP game just goes viral. :slight_smile:

#2

I believe the biggest hurdle of an mmo is the servers and the maintenance of these servers.

With UE4 and source access an MMO theoretically should be easier to do with the right skill sets. Budget or no budget its still hard to produce, like any game really.

#3

Right. I am just trying to get certain people to understand that an MMO does not need to be a multimillion dollar budget games with millions of players online. Does not need to be open world either. :slight_smile: It can be an MP game that just takes off and gains many players. The server part may have issues but if you have a game with that kind of viral success servers should not be too much of an issue at least cost wise. But yeah.

#4

Having worked on an MMORPG, I can safely say it is no small task. (Unless you truly don’t care about user experience - Or build an MMO where the world is made of boxes, the combat system is you typing insults to your opponent with no actual reward for doing so, and there are no effects whatsoever.)

MMO’s take a great deal of time and careful consideration. There are so many factors I am getting tired remembering the work I had to put in on it.
Is it possible without a lot of money - Yes
What is the likely hood of it coming to fruition? Slim… Very Slim

The MMO I worked on came about like this:
Step 1: (We had an idea)
Step 2: It got critiqued by the studio “the whole team”
Step 3: A showcase demo was created
Step 4: It was shown to publishers behind closed doors at GDC
Step 5: Publishers bid on it
Step 6: The publisher willing to invest the most won
Step 7: We get paid in advance (with a whole slew of legal junk that has to be signed)
Step 8: Time to deliver
Step 9: Kiss your life goodbye cause of the hours your pulling to meet the deadline.

Now imagine doing that, but have no money, or a publisher…
Likely hood of success - 1 in a million

Unless of course you live at home or another establishment where all bills are paid and you can sit around all day for free making it :stuck_out_tongue:

#5

MMO is originally a shortened reference to MMORPG. (Like Slang)
The Player base - (Amount of people who play the game at any point in time) is not “Truly” indicative or descriptive of anything more than (In simple terms) - a games popularity.

MMO (Or more properly referenced) MMORPG, has definite characteristics that define it as a Massive Amount of Simultaneous Role Playing Experiences. There are key requirements a game needs to truly be an MMORPG (MMO), and it goes far beyond simply the amount of people playing it.

Halo 3 had almost 800,000 people playing it at any given time “for a period of time”. However, this was never referenced to or cataloged as an MMO game. It is an FPS. More so with Call of Duty. If MMO’s simply gained their name due to the amount of players, then a game would “slip in and out” of that genre with it’s popularity. Which isn’t the case.

#6

So basically a Minecraft with combat system of any modern MMO? :slight_smile:

#7

@fpcompany - Sure lol. If they had a back story, attributes, and a whole slew of other editions. You could totally make a “Cube-Like MMORPG”

#8

MMO is technically Massive Multiplayer Online. Not a shortened name for MMORPG. Because RPG would describe the genre of the game. Like for example MMOFPS, MMORTS, etc. But MMO alone by technical understanding would be any game online with many many players. The number of players online needed to make it MMO is not really specific but should consist of thousands I would imagine. Making an MMORPG would be crazy because you need quests, rewards, AI, NPC’s, a large world, and so on. But a FPS lobby based MMO like Crossfire is just simple maps with MP modes and one AI mode. A much dumbed down type of MMO in terms of work both coding and art side.

Games like Halo 3 would be classified as MMO if they wanted to be. They would follow under Massive Multiplayer Online. We cannot ignore the technical fact that MMO spelled out is Massive Multiplayer Online. I am aware many people do not break it down this much but facts are facts.
**
Answer this question using logic.**

If my FPS for example has 2 million players online at once or atleast a few hundred thousand and they were all connected and could chat through game and such. Play each other in MP modes. is this not again technically considered a Massive Multiplayer Online game?

Just something to think over, forget the standardized use of the term MMO and think of the actual logic in those 3 letters.

#9

I love the idea of an MMO but yeah… The only MMO I played long term post-Warcraft was EVE Online (well after a stint in City of Heroes)

But yeah usually whenever I see an MMO or hear the word I run the other way

#10

In your example those players are not simultaneously connected to one single game world . This is one of primary things one would look for in a MMO. Also I am confused of your goal in this thread unless it was just a food for thought subject.

#11

More or less a perspective thread on the word MMO. How I would find it used logically. So it is more or less your own take on it how you see it etc. :slight_smile:

#12

If you simply researched your claim you would notice that this whole “MMORTS - MMOFPS - (and others alike)” are not “Real” genres. They are re-defining words that have been given meaning by fan bases.
That is like saying - The word Magnificent doesn’t just mean impressive… in fact, there are other words like Magnifichant (meaning a great chant or shout) - and Magnifirant (Meaning a great rant or argument). And we all know those don’t exist However, the abuse is the same. Re-defining an already established definition by chopping it in half and adding whatever you feel like to create some hybrid genre is fine. But it’s not the technical, initial, historical meaning.
If you simply researched where MMORPG came from and the history of this genre going all the way back to the late 70’s - early 80’s you would quickly realize the first game that created this Genre was an MMORPG, There was no such genre as MMOFPS, MMORTS, etc.

And there will never be. That is because as a game expands in it’s capabilities, freedoms, etc, the final and most open genre it can achieve (In all it’s glory) is MMORPG. An RPG is suppose to define the limitless bounds of you having the ability to “Forge” your own path in a free, interactable, and social world.

What you are doing is combining Visual Genre with Game Genre. Which isn’t technically correct.
Did you know FPS isn’t a game genre? Things like (Action, Horror, Adventure) are Game Genre. (FPS, 3rd Person, Top Down), are all Visual Genre. “The point of view in which you experience something”

Your whole argument is trying to prove that “Technically” smashing genre’s together is really what has been going on since day one. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
That is like trying to say, “I am going to play an FPSHorror”. There is nothing wrong with saying this in the fact that - Yes, it is an FPS and a Horror game. Therefore you chose to slam the words together in order to describe what you are going to experience. But to argue that is “Technically correct” is just odd to me.

Anyway, I have said my piece. Hybrid Genre that slam visual genre with gaming genre, and claim technical truths are beyond me. Not even sure why I felt the need to respond O.o this is a pretty pointless topic to argue over.

Peace :rolleyes:

#13

Well as i rember you can set RTCW:Enemy Territory server to 64 players and you can find maps specially for this number and no body called that MMO (even thru MMORPG existed by that time)

For me MMO is where server (or closter) have single consistent world (without match) which lot of players can join in as you expect from the world… a virtual world something like matrix :slight_smile:

#14

Always wanted to create a game that allows anyone to host a server, including the players.
Rather then one large, continuous world all the time, you have many sub-worlds, linked together by various in-game portals.
Its not a new idea, but still an interesting one.
I toyed with it myself way back using Quake III Arena :stuck_out_tongue:

This is part of the reason I like the idea of Firebox.

#15

I am just saying it does not need to be anything like MMORPG to be MMO. I just break the word MMO down to its basic meaning. Massive Multiplayer Online. This tells me that to be MMO I need many many players online playing my game. Of course in an PvP or Co-op environment. It just logically makes sense to me. It would then be up to the developers or Publishers to put an MMO tag in the title or not.

#16

The meaning of the term “RPG” is all over the place these days. By the definition of the word, almost any game you play is an RPG because you take the role of a character. Game developers don’t go throwing out that their games are RPGs because generally when one hears RPG, they think about choosing your equipment and leveling up. Take Heavy Rain for example, it’s not defined as an RPG, but it technically is an RPG because you’re able to interact with the world and ultimately able to choose how their story plays out.

Just because the first “MMO” was an “MMORPG” doesn’t mean that every MMO not followed by RPG is a fake. They may be derivatives of the original source, but as I said, an RPG is generally any game in the first place. MMORPGs by their very nature may be associated with limitless freedom, but at the same time, there’s a limit to your progression in every game no matter how many item variations you can find or levels you can achieve. By rooting out that RPG encompasses all, it’s very easy to say that, yes, every “MMO” is an “MMORPG.”

However, just because an MMO is followed by any other suffix besides RPG, doesn’t make it fake. It makes it what it’s called. Technically, MMORPG is a mash-up of MMO + RPG; mmorpg isn’t a genre in itself, it’s a massive online multiplayer…role playing game. Role Playing Games have been around for quite a while before they became MMOs, just like any other genres.

Anyways, like Ryzon is saying, a game doesn’t have to be labeled as an MMORPG to be considered an MMO, because let’s face it, RPG encompasses everything, it doesn’t mean we have to go labeling it on every single little thing, because the general idea of an RPG is not something we want every game to be thought of as. If something wants to be called an MMORTS, it has every right to be.

#17

When the first MMO was created, what genre was it created in and what was the purpose? It was role playing. That is where it started. That is what it was for, that is how it was defined. Massive Multiplayer was a product of The Role Playing experience.
Now we have action games that are in first person, third person, etc. To say there is such a thing as MMOFPS is combining a game genre with your camera angle… That is just… odd lol.
No, not every game is an RPG. There are many that aren’t, puzzle games, trivial speed games, work out games, etc, etc.

Can someone please lock this thread, this is a serious waste of breath lol. BACK ONTO UE4 TOPICS PLEASE :cool:

#18

I actually did some quick research. RPG is technically every game you play.

You play the role of a player in the game environment. Even Pong or Tetris would be considered as RPG. The ball would be the player or the shapes. But this thread is not a waste of breathe. It is allowing people to express their take on how they perceive a word to be. Like to me FPS would be a First Person Shooter and to others a camera angle titled as a game. (last I checked shooter was a genre for games) Also MMO to me is Massive Multiplayer Online and to you its MMORPG. But if it it so pointless why you keep coming back? It must strike a cord somewhere which means to you it does matter.

If something can be taken from this thread its the fact that we all have our own perspectives on how genres, titles, and their meanings are to us in this line of work. Be it logical, technical, or idealistic. As in the popular meaning.

#19

That is perfectly fine. If you chose to say a camera angle = a genre, that is on you. Now that your point has changed and you express the actual truth, that these ideals are either technical or idea based (Depending on the person), there isn’t anything further to debate. If you are in a community like this, it should be our goal to try and share helpful information. Calling something technical when it is based on your opinion of what MMO means “to you”, is why I responded.

You further proved the point that hybrid genre’s are not real. If every game is an RPG as you say, then there is no such thing as an FPS. There is simply an RPG game that contains a first person camera, and the sub-genre is action/adventure. Once again, showing that combining a viewpoint of camera location with game genre isn’t “Technically Correct”.
If you wanted to be Technically correct, an FPS with MMORPG characteristics should be described as:
An MMORPG
Played from a first person point of view
And the Sub-Genre is Action Adventure (Full of fighting and gun slinging awesomeness)!!

However, that is a lot to say, therefore slang terms have been accepted by the general populous. But to claim that slang as technical?

If someone miss-represents information, then based on what knowledge I have, I will try to help explain the “Flip-Side” of the coin. This isn’t because a cord has been struck, simply that the point of view continues without proper consideration for your initial claim to technicality.

#20

I like the definition of MMO as the way how the game is possible to play. If the primary game loop is connected with other players, it’s the MMO game. If not, it’s a single player with coop/multiplayer/etc., but not MMO.

Anyway, genrel talks… eternal holywar :smiley: