Looks like UE4 is coming to UWP and HoloLens after all!

[MC_Stryker]

Not sure if you guys caught this during the Build keynote this morning but when showing off a slide for partners who will be bringing software to the platform through UWP, one happened to say “Unreal Engine 4 w/ DX12”. This is awesome and I hope I’m not reading to far into it but with what they showed, it looks like Tim and Epic are now onboard. I’ll try to get a screenshot once the replay of the stream goes up. It seems like regardless even if Epic didn’t support it, running our finished app through their Desktop App Converter would output an app we could potentially use in UWP but more importantly, HoloLens. I do think we’d need a plugin to add the HoloLens specific API’s but if UE4 is adding UWP support, its on like Donkey Kong! All Microsoft needs to do now is get those purchase links out to all the Wave #1 devs

Awesome to see this and glad to see Tim is onboard with UWP (at least from what that slide showed)! Granted, they said there are still “some limitations” so I’m curious what those are. Probably security related, but this is at least a step forward for all the UE4 Devs that are getting onboard with HoloLens! Not too mention this will now give others who don’t have XB1 Dev Kits the ability to now move their application over to the platform from the PC (Preview Program Live Today).

Hope everyone is having a great day!

[darthviper107]

I would wait for more information, I’m pretty sure when Hololens was announced that Unreal Engine was listed for supporting that as well.

[MC_Stryker]

@darthviper107;502680

I would wait for more information, I’m pretty sure when Hololens was announced that Unreal Engine was listed for supporting that as well.

Most definitely! However if UE4 is adding support for UWP, its quite literally the only thing holding Epic back from doing it officially. Heck, I’ll add the support for the API’s if our games eventually output to UWP if need be Tim did mention that Epic has interest in HoloLens but it was UWP at that time that was holding them back, not too mention at that time they had only been invited to Wave #3. If HoloLens isn’t officially planned now, it’s only a matter of time considering the tech is too awesome to pass up (as long as I’m not mistaken on what I saw)

[originalbadboy]

If Tim has anything to do with it, I doubt it very much.

He seems to be on a crusade at the moment about anything that he doesn’t see as ‘open’, even though he supports plenty of ecosystems that most people would be considered ‘closed’.

This weeks rant was aimed at Occulus of all people, next week, who knows.

To be blunt, stuff like this and the fact that Unity supports UWP with open arms, just puts me off using Unreal in reality.

[The_Britain]

@originalbadboy;502724

If Tim has anything to do with it, I doubt it very much.

He seems to be on a crusade at the moment about anything that he doesn’t see as ‘open’, even though he supports plenty of ecosystems that most people would be considered ‘closed’.

This weeks rant was aimed at Occulus of all people, next week, who knows.

To be blunt, stuff like this and the fact that Unity supports UWP with open arms, just puts me off using Unreal in reality.

UWP is an attempt to lock down the market like android and IOS devices already do. UWP is a blatant attack on the free market, and studios supporting it I won’t be buying from.

[UnrealEnterprise]

“A laundry list of issues with Windows 10 and UWP”](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-tears-for-gears-why-gears-of-war-ultimate-fails-to-deliver-on-pc)…

[The_Britain]

@franktech;502930

“A laundry list of issues with Windows 10 and UWP”](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-tears-for-gears-why-gears-of-war-ultimate-fails-to-deliver-on-pc)…

This makes me quite happy. I hope they stay the course and totally alienate everyone using Windows. I would love to see SteamOS take off and Linux gaming starting getting the love it deserves.

[calmasacow]

@franktech;502930

“A laundry list of issues with Windows 10 and UWP”](http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-tears-for-gears-why-gears-of-war-ultimate-fails-to-deliver-on-pc)…

In that article it says runs great on Xbox one though. and that is more or less what the discussion at hand is all about.

[originalbadboy]

@The Britain;502918

UWP is an attempt to lock down the market like android and IOS devices already do. UWP is a blatant attack on the free market, and studios supporting it I won’t be buying from.

Both of which Epic support with open arms, so why do they get a free pass and Microsoft doesn’t? It was never written in stone that Microsoft Windows is part of the free market. They have as much a right to do this than anyone else has in the end.

[UnrealEnterprise]

@originalbadboy;503111

Both of which Epic support with open arms, so why do they get a free pass and Microsoft doesn’t? It was never written in stone that Microsoft Windows is part of the free market. They have as much a right to do this than anyone else has in the end.

Tim S seems to be looking ahead and fearing that… “If and when UWP were to become a standard, Microsoft could stop supporting the current Win32 standard and essentially cut competing online stores like GOG, Origin, Battle.net, Steam and Epic’s own game launcher completely out of the picture.”…

We don’t know yet what plans Epic has for its store regarding games… M$ say they won’t be a censor, but history has shown they love total control, and won’t back down unless a direct competitor sucker punches them (Sony etc).

So lets say Epic or a partner comes up with a killer driving game that’s best of the best in class, but Microsoft has its own Forza Horizon X launching… Will that lead to a conflict of interest? Will M$ favor its own partnerships and products and give those priority over others? M$ can’t help itself, its just the nature of the beast!

[The_Britain]

@franktech;503588

Tim S seems to be looking ahead and fearing that… “If and when UWP were to become a standard, Microsoft could stop supporting the current Win32 standard and essentially cut competing online stores like GOG, Origin, Battle.net, Steam and Epic’s own game launcher completely out of the picture.”…

We don’t know yet what plans Epic has for its store regarding games… M$ say they won’t be a censor, but history has shown they love total control, and won’t back down unless a direct competitor sucker punches them (Sony etc).

So lets say Epic or a partner comes up with a killer driving game that’s best of the best in class, but Microsoft has its own Forza Horizon X launching… Will that lead to a conflict of interest? Will M$ favor its own partnerships and products and give those priority over others? M$ can’t help itself, its just the nature of the beast!

Which history has already shown that they will break laws and play to every dirty trick in the book. See Machinima XBox One reviews.

[mdhananjay]

@franktech;503588

Tim S seems to be looking ahead and fearing that… “If and when UWP were to become a standard, Microsoft could stop supporting the current Win32 standard and essentially cut competing online stores like GOG, Origin, Battle.net, Steam and Epic’s own game launcher completely out of the picture.”…

We don’t know yet what plans Epic has for its store regarding games… M$ say they won’t be a censor, but history has shown they love total control, and won’t back down unless a direct competitor sucker punches them (Sony etc).

So lets say Epic or a partner comes up with a killer driving game that’s best of the best in class, but Microsoft has its own Forza Horizon X launching… Will that lead to a conflict of interest? Will M$ favor its own partnerships and products and give those priority over others? M$ can’t help itself, its just the nature of the beast!

The driving game thing is a really poor analogy, when there are clearly other equally good driving games already out there on the Xbox One. So do you mean to tell me that MS actually pays EA off to make sure that NFS is considerably worse than Forza on Windows and XB1? Just listen to yourself man!

Secondly, they have clearly stated in Build that other stores (Steam, Origin, etc.) can sell UWP apps and users can install and use them as normal UWP apps. Agreed, all it takes is turning of one setting from MS’s part to disable this, but long run, I don’t think it’ll make sense for them to do this. This is the ONLY way they can drive up the acceptance of UWP apps. Every other way they’ve tried, they’ve failed, miserably. And they know that.

Honestly, I had a lot of respect for Gabe and love my Steam library to its, but his arguments against Windows stink of nothing but hypocrisy to the high heavens. What is Steam/SteamOS if not a walled garden in itself? So people on the internet support SteamOS for pretty much the same reason they don’t support Windows: it is a walled garden where stuff “just works”

[calmasacow]

@mdhananjay;507886

The driving game thing is a really poor analogy, when there are clearly other equally good driving games already out there on the Xbox One. So do you mean to tell me that MS actually pays EA off to make sure that NFS is considerably worse than Forza on Windows and XB1? Just listen to yourself man!

Secondly, they have clearly stated in Build that other stores (Steam, Origin, etc.) can sell UWP apps and users can install and use them as normal UWP apps. Agreed, all it takes is turning of one setting from MS’s part to disable this, but long run, I don’t think it’ll make sense for them to do this. This is the ONLY way they can drive up the acceptance of UWP apps. Every other way they’ve tried, they’ve failed, miserably. And they know that.

Honestly, I had a lot of respect for Gabe and love my Steam library to its, but his arguments against Windows stink of nothing but hypocrisy to the high heavens. What is Steam/SteamOS if not a walled garden in itself? So people on the internet support SteamOS for pretty much the same reason they don’t support Windows: it is a walled garden where stuff “just works”

Exactly! It is a pretty poor argument. I get what he’s talking about. But come on consumers would completely bail on them if there was ever and hint of this going on. Also yeah the double standandard and wide latitude given to steam just blows my mind. I really wish it was so **** convenient!

[Tim_Sweeney]

The slide refers to Unreal Engine 4 supporting DirectX 12, which we wholeheartedly do. However, we’re not supporting UWP.

Epic’s position is that we’d happily support UWP if Microsoft made a long-term commitment to keeping it open on PC, in some specific technical ways outlined here: http://venturebeat.com/2016/03/10/epics-tim-sweeney-heres-how-to-keep-windows-an-open-platform/. Microsoft has actually implemented many of these features since Windows 10 ship, as demonstrated here: Universal App Model Overview: What’s New in the UWP App Model | Build 2016 | Channel 9.

The lack of clear future commitment is the only significant roadblock remaining. A commitment is especially important because Windows 10’s new forced-update policy enables Microsoft to change the rules at any time. It would be unreasonable for developers to invest in writing software for UWP on the expectation that it’s going to be open, and then suddenly find that a Windows forced-update has locked everyone into Microsoft’s store, services, or some yet-undisclosed certification requirements in the future.

In other words: Before we decide to play this game, we need to know what the rules are, and that the rules won’t change mid-game.

[UnrealEnterprise]

@James Barnette;508081

But come on consumers would completely bail on them if there was ever and hint of this going on.

Would they… How quickly people forget about Machinima and Microsoft: Stealth marketing: Microsoft paying YouTubers…

**

Microsoft tells us that it is halting the program, and trying to bring existing videos in line with the FTC’s requirements. “We have asked Machinima to not post any additional Xbox One content as part of this media buy and we have asked them to add disclaimers to the videos that were part of this program indicating they were part of paid advertising,” writes a spokesperson.

**

[UnrealEnterprise]

@mdhananjay;507886

So do you mean to tell me that MS actually pays EA off to make sure that NFS is considerably worse than Forza on Windows and XB1? Just listen to yourself man!

You don’t need to payoff competitors when you can ‘cook’ reviews. Lets stick to facts. Fact-1: We know from above that M$ secretly paid for fake positive reviews. Did M$ also target competitors with fake negative reviews? … Fact-2: Windows-10 makes it harder for PC users to install competing products from other marketplaces…

@mdhananjay;507886

The driving game thing is a really poor analogy, when there are clearly other equally good driving games already out there on the Xbox One.

When Microsoft shipped Forza-Horizon-2, it got glowing 5-star reviews. Meanwhile, cars fell through the landscape… More Machinima??? Look, if M$ dropped forced updates / slurping, I’d buy Win10. But M$ is playing dirty these days. Can we trust them on UWP?.. No, because using Malware tactics to impose Windows-10 on users shows M$ can’t be trusted!

How Microsoft copied malware techniques to make Get Windows 10 the world’s PC pest

How Microsoft copied malware techniques to make Get Windows 10 the world's PC...

Windows 10 Is Spyware

Windows 10 Is Spyware - The New American

Sneaky Microsoft renamed its data slurper before sticking it back in Windows 10.

Sneaky Microsoft renamed its data slurper before sticking it back in Windows 10

[UnrealEnterprise]

@Tim Sweeney;508227

The slide refers to Unreal Engine 4 supporting DirectX 12, which we wholeheartedly do. However, we’re not supporting UWP.

Epic’s position is that we’d happily support UWP if Microsoft made a long-term commitment to keeping it open on PC, in some specific technical ways outlined here: http://venturebeat.com/2016/03/10/epics-tim-sweeney-heres-how-to-keep-windows-an-open-platform/. Microsoft has actually implemented many of these features since Windows 10 ship, as demonstrated here: Universal App Model Overview: What’s New in the UWP App Model | Build 2016 | Channel 9.

The lack of clear future commitment is the only significant roadblock remaining. A commitment is especially important because Windows 10’s new forced-update policy enables Microsoft to change the rules at any time. It would be unreasonable for developers to invest in writing software for UWP on the expectation that it’s going to be open, and then suddenly find that a Windows forced-update has locked everyone into Microsoft’s store, services, or some yet-undisclosed certification requirements in the future.

In other words: Before we decide to play this game, we need to know what the rules are, and that the rules won’t change mid-game.

From Tim’s article above:

“Broadly speaking, UWP aims to solve the problem of sandboxing and application security that has led to the wider occurrence of malware on Windows than, say, iOS.The win32 APIs are difficult to secure because they are both extraordinarily broad in extent and extraordinarily constrained by the backward-compatibility requirements of hundreds of thousands of PC programs that consumers and businesses use. The APIs that AutoCAD uses in powering great industrial design applications, for example, are also what malware leverages to take over a user’s PC.”

Tech News from Build-2016:

“There are 16 million Win32 or .NET apps in the world. When we built the Universal Windows Platform, we left them behind. And that was dumb,”](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/04/07/microsoft_rethinks_the_windows_application_platform_one_more_time/)

…It seems the rules are already changing…

[calmasacow]

@Tim Sweeney;508227

The slide refers to Unreal Engine 4 supporting DirectX 12, which we wholeheartedly do. However, we’re not supporting UWP.

Epic’s position is that we’d happily support UWP if Microsoft made a long-term commitment to keeping it open on PC, in some specific technical ways outlined here: http://venturebeat.com/2016/03/10/epics-tim-sweeney-heres-how-to-keep-windows-an-open-platform/. Microsoft has actually implemented many of these features since Windows 10 ship, as demonstrated here: Universal App Model Overview: What’s New in the UWP App Model | Build 2016 | Channel 9.

The lack of clear future commitment is the only significant roadblock remaining. A commitment is especially important because Windows 10’s new forced-update policy enables Microsoft to change the rules at any time. It would be unreasonable for developers to invest in writing software for UWP on the expectation that it’s going to be open, and then suddenly find that a Windows forced-update has locked everyone into Microsoft’s store, services, or some yet-undisclosed certification requirements in the future.

In other words: Before we decide to play this game, we need to know what the rules are, and that the rules won’t change mid-game.

Very reasonable thing to ask for in my book. Especially considering the investment that MS is asking developers for.

[calmasacow]

@franktech;508421

From Tim’s article above:

Tech News from Build-2016:

…It seems the rules are already changing…

ehh I’m very in favor of Forced updates though I wish they were not so frequent. I wish they would hold them for a few days and do it like 2 a week. That being said I think that it is a good thing. If left to the consumer they don’t want to be inconvenienced and they don’t do it and that turns into a security which affects the reputation of Microsoft/Windows itself and affects the entire Windows ecosystem. like all the A-holes that stay on XP and never update and their computers are loaded full of **** and then they get all butt-hurt and whine Microsoft and Windows sucks. When it is they who are in fact the ones that are lazy and suck.

[mdhananjay]

@Tim Sweeney;508227

The slide refers to Unreal Engine 4 supporting DirectX 12, which we wholeheartedly do. However, we’re not supporting UWP.

Epic’s position is that we’d happily support UWP if Microsoft made a long-term commitment to keeping it open on PC, in some specific technical ways outlined here: http://venturebeat.com/2016/03/10/epics-tim-sweeney-heres-how-to-keep-windows-an-open-platform/. Microsoft has actually implemented many of these features since Windows 10 ship, as demonstrated here: Universal App Model Overview: What’s New in the UWP App Model | Build 2016 | Channel 9.

The lack of clear future commitment is the only significant roadblock remaining. A commitment is especially important because Windows 10’s new forced-update policy enables Microsoft to change the rules at any time. It would be unreasonable for developers to invest in writing software for UWP on the expectation that it’s going to be open, and then suddenly find that a Windows forced-update has locked everyone into Microsoft’s store, services, or some yet-undisclosed certification requirements in the future.

In other words: Before we decide to play this game, we need to know what the rules are, and that the rules won’t change mid-game.

This is actually a super reasonable demand, considering the effort it would take to get the binaries up and running as UWPs. Secondly, I am pretty sure they’ll get more developers on board immediately, if they commit to a long term future of open distribution.

On a slightly controversial note here: I personally feel that app stores are a horrid concept in the long run; they become unwieldy and bloated and utterly meaningless. And getting attention on any one platform, much less on all the platforms, becomes a chore by itself for a small team. I mean don’t get me wrong; there’ve been some amazing success stories, but how many of those have happened in the recent past? Plus just getting our game/app to show up in the spotlight or top 5 ranked requires you to jump through a bunch of hoops, hoops which, ironically, these app stores should’ve not had in the first place!

I am all for a free and open market, but unfortunately, the “success” of the two Mobile App Stores have set a rather bad precedent for the industry as a whole.