How on earth is going out and looking for a woman to employ = gender equality?
I hope you realize that if you want gender equality it means you actually have to hire someone based on their qualifications rather than their gender, right? Women have more rights than men in the 21st century in the vast majority of western countries ESPECIALLY in the World’s only remaining super power.
Mr Milo Yiannopoulos has explained this in great detail and has never lost a debate on exposing the hoax that women these days are somehow oppressed or kept down. There is nothing stopping any woman from getting the same education and qualifications as any man other than laziness.
Since we are on the crazy train lets go and bash EPIC for lack of engine equality. No fair that UE4 comes with $1500 worth of assets integrated into UE4 Free when compared to Unity 5. No fair I want engine equality here!!!
I think calling it laziness is not very productive for this conversation; IMO it would be better to say “different choices” or something along these lines.
Well whose fault it then? We live in a free and equal society, when I was doing my CS Degree my class had lots of women and at the end of final year there were only 2 who actually made it through.
So what do we explain is the problem here? different choices? nah its really Laziness on your part to do your homework is one of them. Nothing to do with gender or race etc.
I think the conversation would go better if instead of calling them names, you addressed specific things they do differently. In your example, I guess you could say they chose to not dedicate themselves to their studies to the necessary extent?
I was not aware that the word “laziness” is calling names. So you would have to forgive my lack of vocabulary, my society is much different from yours. What sounds like an insult or calling names to you isn’t the same here.
But I hope you get the point I am making about hiring based on qualifications as opposed to having gender or race as a criteria. I have never met someone IRL who believes that Gender or Race should be a criteria in hiring.
Alright, saying someone has laziness doesn’t necessarily imply they are lazy, fair point. But either way, this line of conversation is not going anywhere and is getting a bit too off topic, so I suggest we move on.
If you do not recognize that males actually have significant, unstated, privilege, and that fixing this will make currently privileged males (who may not even realize their privilege) uncomfortable, then you’re not at the point where having a productive discussion even makes sense. Go read the actual science by actual scientists, rather than political think pieces by whomever shouts the loudest, and then tell me what you think. Or maybe just grow up for another 10 years or so and get some experience from real life in a bunch of different mileus.
(There are other classes that have even less privilege than women, but none of them are as big in total numbers.)
I was not aware that males have significant, unstated, privilege in the gaming / software engineering industry or in the 21st century western world in general. You have certainly taught me something here, silly me always had this dumb backward belief that people should be hired based on merit rather than Gender or Race.
But hey what does an old fashion bearded man like myself know anyways.
I am not up with the times anyways, the current progressive generation obviously has the right answers on how the hiring process should go. I mean who the hell needs to consider Merit, Credentials, Recommendations, Experience, Portfolio and all that sort of nonsense when hiring an individual when you can just hire based on gender or skin color, right?
I grew up with my brother and grandmother in Trinidad (The Caribbean), parents at the time which was the 1980’s flew to America to find work and left us here (I am a brown male). My grandfather died in 1992 and only my grandmother remained to take care of us I was 7 years old in 1992. My brother and I had to help my grandmother manually cut 4 Acres of “Bamboo Grass” it was hard dense tropical grass we had to cut with a grass whip manually. We had to spray herbicide and other dangerous poison as young as we were and we did it without the use of respirator which is what gave my grand dad cancer BTW.
And this was in the tropics let me tell you it wasn’t easy this land was like a real jungle. And we had to make sure before the dry season reached the grass was cut to prevent forest fire from killing our orange trees.
I managed to accomplish a lot including a degree in Computer Science it was from a British University “Hertfordshire” because I didn’t have the grades to enter the University of the West Indies. “My grandma helped with the money she saved from agriculture” Nevertheless I managed to get a job in the oil sector which didn’t last that long because of the oil crisis we currently face and I invested in some land and I planted myself a couple hundred coconut palm plants which will provide me with a nice salary every month in 4 years from now. It was important to do this because this country has nepotism and its difficult to find work so I started my own business instead.
Whereas I could personally tell you of girls who I went to school with never had to work a day in their life and got their university degrees paid for cash upfront by parents. They were pretty fair skinned girls who all got jobs very easily in Toyota and other companies here.
So I could never understand how anyone in their right mind can say men are privileged and have the upper hand. I don’t know which part of my life was I in anyway privileged.
You state that males have SIGNIFICANT, UNSTATED PRIVILEGE
Some may not even know it.
If I do not recognize that #1 and #2 are true, a conversation does not make sense. (non-productive).
This is an amazing tactic… You ASSUME an argument has already been validated (even though you provide zero evidence) and if anyone doesn’t agree with your argument you dismiss them. Brilliant!
Are you after truth? If you are, this is a terrible tactic because it stifles debate as I must accept your truth without any evidence provided. I hope you see this and offer something of value… which is to provide evidence to support your claim that I have significant unstated privilege.
They prefer to be referred to by their brain gender, and not by what their body looked like when they were born. And saying stuff like “not a real female” is a bit offensive; if you wanna specify their condition, saying they’re transgender is already enough, no need to twist the knife.
Having said that, I’m curious what OP will say about this.
ps: Maybe that person is an exception; what I said above is based on the few transgenders I know.
Saying someone isn’t a “real” female/male is very degrading.
I do feel like diversity is a huge problem in the games industry, both in terms of people that work for game studios, and in the characters in the games they release. For example, how many games pass the Bechdel test? I don’t believe affirmative action is a solution to that problem for hiring people, but how is trying to get a diverse group of people with different perspectives bad for a talk? I don’t want to see similar people with similar experiences, perspectives, and skill sets talk in a row. As much as I like John Carmack, Tim Sweeney, and Tim Schafer, I wouldn’t want to see just their perspective on VR.
Sad part is that we’ve demonized anyone who is asking for evidence to support the claimed position. In this case, that I have “significant unstated privilege.” And, if I do not agree with @jwatte (because no evidence was provided), I’m not worth having a conversation with. This is sad and let’s hope that this type of poorly trained reasoning will die out in future generations.
One - I’m a woman. Two - you are absolutely, positively, 100 % misrepresenting what I said. I said specifically I was looking for QUALIFIED women to speak. Here’s an analogy, since apparently my plain statements were too difficult to parse. If I have a bag full of m&m’s, and they’re all mostly blue, and I say “I’d really like to eat a red one” - is the fact that I’m looking for a red m&M among thousands of blue ones saying that it’s any less of a candy? Does it taste any different? No. Three - this isn’t a job, this was a speaking role on a panel.
Great hyperbole, poor awareness of actual facts. Fact - qualified women are less likely to be hired than men with the same qualifications. Fact - studies have shown that women frequently write better code than men, but have it committed to projects less frequently, but ONLY when their username is specifically female - gender neutral or male names get committed more frequently. The code remains the same, only the name changes - why do you think that is? Women also are far less likely to even apply to jobs they are qualified for than men, because we are so frequently told that we aren’t good enough, that women read a job description and will only apply if they meet 95-100% of qualifications, whereas men will apply if they meet even 50%.
Also, feel free to keep calling what I’m doing the crazy train - I really did not come here to debate equality, though apparently many of you were extremely offended that I sought to expand my network to include unreal developers. But what I’m actually doing is educating minorities and providing positive role models. I’m not a hiring manager anywhere, I’m not trying to get someone hired on the basis of their gender or skin color, what I am doing is looking to provide role models and opportunities to people who may not have received the same ones that other people are privileged to receive. It seems like many of you are very angry about this - yet how does this affect you negatively? Is it really your right to be hired over someone with equal qualifications simply because of your skin color, gender, or ANY OTHER attribute? Maybe that’s a threat. Maybe you’re just awful people - I don’t know any of you, and after some of the responses here I don’t care to. But if you’d like to think of yourselves as enlightened, fair, or interesting people, please, do some research. Empathize, just a little bit.
Women often have the same qualifications and education, but do not receive the same opportunities. I would really encourage you to step outside your bias and do some research - read up on actual scientific studies about gender bias, rather than blogs etc. Read a few personal (horror) stories about what tech is like for women or people of color, or other underrepresented groups. I mean, if you’re a game developer, don’t you think it would benefit you to think outside your own personal box? Or are you only making games for people just like you? Personally, I would rather build things that can be appreciated by a wide audience, but hey, if you want to leave money on the table, that’s cool. More for us.
If someone is transgender and identifying as female (which seems to be the case from your post) that person is female.
The panel already happened, so unfortunately does not help in this instance, but I would be happy and interested to talk to this person for future events.
Apples & Oranges, candy is all the same, people have varying levels of qualification. You are likely to ultimately end up with a less qualified panel due to your limited demographic.
I won’t even bother responding to that kind of garbage you just wrote, you seem to be living in your own fantasy world, what you wrote also sounds like far left extremist propaganda aswell, I want nothing to do with that sort of craziness.
The world I live in, or atleast the country I live in people get hired based on 2 things.
A) Connections
B) Qualifications.
I actually stopped reading at the part where you said “Women write better code than men” way to go off on the coo coo train there lady. Yeah I am to believe gender has anything to do with writing code, ok yeah sure. Continue on the coo coo crazy train.