let's talk about the "polygon taboo"

Community Community & Industry Discussion
1

hello, guys firts of all srry for not that good english, but i aways wanted to talk about it and finally feelling being a good time.

I’ve made this topic to talk about what i really feelling being weird which is the “number of polygons in characters”, looking at unreal market and many others places with characters “to sell” i really get a annoying feellings about why peoples aways try to make that “too low poly characters” like, we are in the ps4, xbox one, pcs with i9 (eight or nine generation), the consoles and pcs gettinng better and better and triple AAA studios and even the"middle level (between indy and triple AAA) trying to make characters with many polys as possible, but when i do look to indy and many markets i ending see the oposite, characters with 4k or even 8k textures and materials, but with like 10 to max of 30k poly (even possible main characters), most of the sellers aways put all the quality on texture and material but the mesh ending being too low, why this is happening??, why many indy studios and teams and many, really many 3d sellers aways like to go on that way,

instead of trying to take advantage of the evolution of the consoles, engines and pcs and using more polygons they go in the other way and only focus on texture and sometimes even downgrade the mesh making it be really low polly, why that need of keeping polys lows as possible?? it is because of the mobiles games??? make sure that characters can be used for mobiles??? to increas the range of peoples being able to use it???

I really would love to know why this is really happening.

we are getting close to the next generation of games, and we still seeying peoples strugle and making “too low poly characters” instead of trying to take advantage of the consoles and pcs and engines getting better and better at handle more and more polygons.

Even for “texture using” we have a limit at "how much a texture/material can go before it getting to the point where don’t matter if it’s 4k, 8k, 16k or 32k+, because we as human have a limit at how much “a resolution” can look better in our eyes, like above 4k is almost the same for us when look at "how beatfull and awesome are the graphics, because our brains and eyes can’t handle forever the resolution increase it goes to the point where is pointless just increase the resolution while holding back in character polygons mesh.

At last for me the current generation of consoles a character being around let’s say 80k to 150k polygons was supposed to be the standart for pcs and consoles even for npcs and minor characters, for me we where supposed to find in the unreal market characters around 50k to 80k poly but most of then barelly pass the 20k to 30k, with most of them around 10k to 20k.

share yours opnions

2

A few things, Overwatch for example averages 30k per character. They often embrace the lower polygon look and leave obvious edges in plain sight.

People creating market place content aren’t expecting you to use their characters as the main characters in a game. Usually they are intended to be place holder or background characters.

3

As stated above Marketplace is no place to judge poly counts. On the other hand if you are working your own game then on average hero and secondary hero characters having 100 - 200K + ploys is normal these days. Some Boss characters can have 500K + polys. Its an age old discussion and it all depends.

Bottom line is keep it as low as you can go while still making it look good. so if a character looks fine on 60K you don’t need more but I can give you a few designs where the character wont look anywhere good under 150K.

4

that is the problem currently, i’m developing a game with a friend ( a duo ) and for now really don’t matter much if is high or low, as long look good is fine, and i’m using many models from the market, because since we are 2, to do everything(model, animation, sound, vfx, code and all others things) could be too much then i’m rellying on go use some market stuffs for now at last for this first game and when they really look good overal i’m still feeling like making a "mobile game due to “too much low poly characters”.

But i’m already planning for my next game to do a sort of "fantasy+the sims style of game, then for that sor of game i do need which basically every character look and good enough since all the characters (main secondary and background) gonna be created using the same base model, i’m thinking in maybe use daz3d characters for that, but even then, have a weird 16k count(base body), ofcourse when you add the cloths it can go high but for me still feel weird, cuz when i look to then from “far” they look fine but when you get too close or start to work with “morphs” then the “edges” and low polly start to pop-up making things looks not soo good as in the beginner.

i would love to work with a base body around at last 30k(base naked body) to reduce the number of edges and improve animations which is another problem.

my other problem with low poly characters is while for "simple animations like walk, and simple attacks or animations which don’t need too much bending low polly is fine but when you start to trying more complex animations with more complex bending, then the deform start to look very messed and is really not easy to fix it.

anyways i would really move to see the sellers in the market starting to go more “poly” and we get characters around 50 to 150k poly(not only main but also enemies and bla bla bla).

as yours have told while texture alone can do a amazing job with low poly characters it have a limit of “how amazing” it can go without ask for more poly, specially for "realistic looks, for "cartoon characters low poly can really be fine but for “more realistic look” low can’t do too much.

As i told for now i’m making a game with a friend then we can’t really do everything without need to buy somethings like characters, props and animations and when going to epic market and only finding “low poly characters on then” can be really annoying sometimes specially when you are trying to make the game looks good as possible.

5

Allow me to say this plainly. It looks like you are just starting out and trying to make a game with “realsitic characters” using Daz3d and marketplace assets. Here’s the thing, the fact that you would be using generic models as basis for your characters and games will matter not in the end if they are high or low poly, becuase they would either be asset flips or in case of Daz produce a very recognizable generic character that everyone else uses.

I don’t mean this in a negative light for you but i’m saying, it wouldn’t matter any longer at that point of how your character deforms when from the start the games art design is uninspired with no thoughful work on design, conceptualising, proper modeling, complex custom rigging etc.

For example I could care less how a character deforms in a game like Skyrim or even Battlefield, because the art direction of the game is uninspired and generic, but i would care how a character deforms in Overwatch or DMC or Uncharted for instance where there is clear thought behind character personality, design and animation.

The above is good if you are just doing this as a hobby or training but at this stage you shouldn’t concern yourself with details like poly count and just focus on whats best for you in the learning process.

6

well i feel it’s more like about "the type of game you want, a exemple, could be games like the sims itself, all the characters com from as you told “the same generic uninspired” base model, but what make that game so attractive(awesome sales) is how they work with this, even skyrim itself, it’s a exemple, many peoples really don’t care about how generic he can look as long you can tel or create things like a very good background story, good game mechanics (which is not exactly the sims games), can make the player feel inserted in the world, just look at others type of games, specially with "characters customizations, not everyone want to have a “pre-made” character which aways will look the same, peoples nowadays want more “customization” create they own characters and in many cases tell they own tales, this why using a generic character work, because using morphs you can turn him in anything else.

For me at last what is matter is the target public audience you are aimming (which nowadays is another problem because now everyone want to enjoy the same games and make annoying demands for every game aways be inclusive and bla bla bla but this for another topic not this one), i’m aiming to make a game where players can make they "own unique characters and tell they unique tales, but i also want do that giving then the best detailed possible characters.

But as i told for now we are still a indie duo, and we can’t afford to make everything for ourselfs with our limited time(we have others jobs and can’t full focus in game until at last our first game demo is finished.

this is why for now we need to look for assets and characters because for now this is very demanding specilly characters.

But as i told that were i feel really weird when looking at unreal market characters and even others places and most of then ending finding characters with very good texture looking but still a “little too low polly” and you can easy spot some annoying edges or when trying to make some special animations they ending don’t looking good because the character bending in a weird way and start to have weird deformations or clips.

anyway could be really good if many sellers started to go more further when making characters and poly counts, because as i told at last here on epic market the average poly count for characters is around 10 to 20k,(for humanoids), with few ones going around 30k or more (like dragons)