Frustrations..

General Feedback & Requests
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Before I dive into the core issues, I want to establish a bit of context:

  1. I’ve been a committed creator in the Fortnite Creative space since its inception in 2019.
  2. Posting here isn’t common for me due to my hectic schedule.
  3. I’m deeply thankful for the growth opportunities over the years. My company, Alliance Studios, has expanded to a team of 14 exceptional developers who motivate me daily to advocate for a safe and secure environment for them.

However, I’ve reached my limit.

Despite regularly addressing problems via Twitter, I’m bringing our concerns here to emphasize that we are not alone. Many developers share our frustrations but fear speaking out could damage their reputations.

I am compelled to speak up. The ongoing issues with discovery and engine stability are exhausting.

Our team has invested significant effort into a major project, balancing our resources across various initiatives. We strive to push the boundaries of quality, rather than simply replicating successful formulas for higher revenue.

We’re on the brink of releasing a major game, “Mercenaries.” Our lead developer, WertAndrew, has frequently discussed the project in these forums. Yet, as ambitious as our project is, we’re grappling with even more substantial challenges.

From WertAndrew’s recent tweet: “Imagine if Bjarne Stroustrup updated C++ annually, adding features that disrupt existing online games. That’s the current state of UEFN—seemingly minor updates break fundamental aspects like movement and server performance. Our game is polished and ready, but server issues have stalled us for months. We’re now facing seven critical issues post-update, and the problems are only escalating.”

Moreover, marketing this game effectively is becoming increasingly untenable. We’re hesitant to invest more into marketing efforts when discovery challenges lead to negligible returns. We want to commit to our work and this platform, but external frustrations continue to mount.

Epic recently stated, “Discover rows are algorithmically curated, with no manual selection outside of Epic’s Picks.” Yet, community feedback, like a recent reply from DWDFN, reflects skepticism based on inconsistent enforcement and accountability regarding violations.

What’s happening at the systemic level? Our projects are fragile, breaking with every minor patch. The ‘Epic Picks’ once offered visibility but now seem buried and ineffective. It appears only a handful of creators truly benefit, leaving the rest of us struggling.

Brand collaborations provide some stability, but how long can we rely on this in the current discovery format? When will there be a focus on stabilizing the engine rather than on new features? We face multiple critical issues with each update, undermining our efforts.

As someone leading a dedicated team, the choice to continue innovating in this space is fraught with risk. We’re committed to offering secure careers, but the direction of the platform is disconcerting. I’m seeking a path forward that ensures the growth and security of my team, but the challenges are daunting.

We need real improvements, not just for us, but for the entire creator community.

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I 100% agree with this and know many feel the same way.

They always tell us to take it to the forums, so maybe we can see change by bringing it to the forums!

My two recent polls about what is the chance of something breaking had quite a few votes each and both were extremely high on creators expecting a 76-100% chance of something breaking. Why are we this fearful that our systems will break with each update…

It is not that we are fearful, WE EXPECT IT.

We are already having to combat dishonest creators who seem to constantly be overlooked and never punished, sure they banned a few creators, but they were the little creators and they still got paid and are back now…

I seen Wacky West and other Creators Maps were shown during the GDC talks, did Epic explain that many of those maps are not in discover due to guideline violating maps/creators?

Almost all the maps they showcase are maps not in Discover, sure we as creators could be to blame for this, not every map will perform, but having to compete with creators on alts and who don’t care to lose it while we try to make an honest career is infuriating.

We just want a stable and fair ecosystem, is that really to much to ask for?

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I can also 100% agree with this

but I have the feeling epic games is just going to ignore our concerns with discovery
I want this platform to be actually unique and not a roblox ripoff I mean when uefn got announced we saw the possibilities but all of that washed away with engine issues and greed of some creators who just copy paste maps to get into discovery
I myself don’t want to end up like one of those people I want to actually make interesting contend with the platform I was given

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Well Said!

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I have to disagree with the analysis you’re doing but agreeing that frustration is a shared by 100% of the devs in this ecosystem.

Analysis :
1/ Epic has a moderation team of thousands of moderator around the world. To get all of them synced is a real challenge.
Since March/April, they started to sanction. More and more devs are getting suspended a week or more. So actions are taken against those who are breaking the rules. It’s not perfect yet, but as said above, having thousands of worker following the same guidelines require some time.

2/ Most of the recent focus about violations is about IP. Sadly Epic has no right to define what is IP infringement or not. Do we really want Epic to know which IP allows what type of usage and which don’t ? All platform manage this the same way : only upon notification. It means : Minecraft, Fall Guys, Call of Duty, … won’t be take down unless the IP owner sends a request.
Don’t blame Epic for this.
An constructive alternative would be to help Epic find alternative solution.
Just a short term solution : If you think there is an IP in a map that is no owned by the IP owner - then the map should be flagged as an advertisment. Allowing moderation to deny updates until the map is properly presented.

3/ Your goal to offer a secure career to your team is not Epic concern. Even if UEFN provides many team oriented functionalities, most of the ecosystem is more optimised for solo dev than actual teams. You can’t blame the plateform for your business model choices.
For example, at Vysena, we tried for month to do an actual studio … and yet we decided to stay as a collective of indy devs. why ? because the ecosystem is not stable enough to work as a large group (2-3+)

I don’t complain a lot on social network, but I take the time, everytime i can, to discuss with our CSM about the operational issues we have. And everytime, this person does her best to help and to share the learning of the issue to her colleagues.

On the bugs issues : we all share the same point of view in the community and i support your message on this. We should not have to rely on faith for each update. But I do believe something : the people behind UEFN are people like us, devs. So if they do what they do, it means there is something else behind the scene we are not made aware. It’s why your message is important : the more attention we bring to our perception of the state of UEFN the more devs will be able to push for more priority on stability.
So to quote all CSM favorite message “May you encounter a bug on UEFN, please do share it on the forums.” ;p

Best

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I do resonate with this, I’ve always felt that Epic have been encouraging creators and developers to take the initiative and build new and exciting experiences with UEFN. But the tooling we’ve been given just isn’t ready yet and hasn’t been ready for quite some time. I know it will get better over time, and with new updates like Scene Graph and MaxVerse coming some time this year, it won’t be long until we have a good set of tools to work with. But I can’t help feeling that it will take much longer until we have a proper “stable” environment to work in.

It doesn’t help that we’re entirely reliant on Epic to provide us with that stable environment, as there is currently no way for us to troubleshoot our own issues, fix bugs or even profile our own code properly. All we want as creators is to provide quality experiences for players to have fun and enjoy themselves in but it’s just getting tiring.

I know the teams at Epic are doing their best and I have to commend them for the amount of time and effort they’ve put in, but it doesn’t change the fact that it has been frustrating and will likely continue to be frustrating for a good while.

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I would love to agree with you, but when our map was taken down for an asset that was “violating IP” and there was ZERO DMCA email, there became a problem.

With our issue it was a Lucky Block. We felt as if it was different enough in many ways that it would not be violating the copyright as it was no where near 1:1 other than it was a yellow cube with “?”

When the map was pulled, it showed to us that there was a moderation issue due to IP, we have also been denied map submissions due to it being IP.

Oddly enough, Epic would not tell us what IP was being violated, so we decided to change up the blocks to just ensure there were no more issues.

Epic is picking and choosing what IPs to protect, it was obviously Nintendo. I believe not telling us what IP was being violated is their way of making it appear as if they are not picking and choosing what IPs to instantly flag.

Other IPs are not getting the instant flagging even after requesting something similar, this is where it becomes a major problem.

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Your funny if you think there is thousands of moderators world wide :rofl: Ill die on the hill that says 50 MAX + Algo help is how they moderate. 1000 moderators is actually funny…

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Thank you for sharing your perspective. It’s clear that we both care deeply about the UEFN community and its future, though we might see different paths forward on some issues.

  1. Moderation Efforts and the Need for Consistency:
    Effective moderation is crucial, but it also needs to be predictable and clear to foster trust and stability within the community.
  • Current Challenges: I appreciate the complexities involved in managing a global team of moderators. My concerns center around the transparency, consistency, and fairness of these actions. The wide variability in moderation not only affects immediate project outcomes but also undermines trust in the platform’s stability.
  • Suggested Changes for Improved Consistency:
    • In-depth Initial Review: Moderation should involve a thorough initial review when projects are first submitted. This foundational assessment would ensure that projects meet all necessary guidelines before they go live, setting a clear standard from the start.
    • Version-Specific Reviews: Subsequent updates or versions should be moderated with a focus on the changes made rather than re-evaluating the entire project. This approach would reduce inconsistencies and the potential for human error, as moderators would concentrate on what has actually changed.
    • Transparent Moderation Logs: Implementing transparent moderation logs could help developers understand the status of reported issues and actions taken. This level of openness would demystify the moderation process and clarify expectations.
    • Feedback Mechanism for Moderation Decisions: A robust feedback mechanism where developers can contest or inquire about moderation decisions would improve the system’s responsiveness and fairness. This step is crucial for refining guidelines and building trust among creators.
  1. IP Violations and Potential Improvements:
    You’re right in noting that handling IP is inherently complex, and platforms typically operate reactively, acting on notifications from rights holders. This often leaves creators in a precarious position, uncertain if their content might suddenly be flagged or removed.
    Some thoughts on improvements:
  • Pre-submission IP Checks: Implementing a system where creators can voluntarily submit new content for a preliminary IP check would help identify potential issues before content goes live.
  • Clearer Guidelines and Examples: Providing more detailed guidelines and real-world examples of acceptable versus infringing uses of IP could help creators navigate this complex area more effectively.
  • Partnership for IP Education: Collaborating with IP experts to offer workshops or webinars focused on IP rights would empower creators with the knowledge to make informed decisions.
  1. Business Model and Platform Stability: I understand your perspective that Epic isn’t responsible for the business models we choose. Yet, if Epic aims to support a diverse ecosystem that includes larger teams and studios, then the platform’s stability becomes crucial. The instability affects our ability to plan and invest in larger, more innovative projects, which in turn impacts the job security of those who work within these teams. The direct impact of platform stability on our ability to innovate and grow cannot be overstated. My team has adapted by scaling back our projects to what the platform can reliably support, relying on external brand work to fund our operations. This adaptation, while necessary, means we are not pushing the boundaries of what could be possible, ultimately stunting growth in the player base. This situation is not ideal and speaks to the need for a stable platform that supports diverse development strategies and true innovation.

In conclusion, without meaningful improvements in moderation practices and platform stability, the entire ecosystem risks stagnation. Let’s continue these conversations and work together towards a platform that not only responds to our immediate needs but also anticipates and fosters our future growth.

Thank you again for engaging in this important discussion. Obviously, I know my situation may be unique, but I try to be a voice for the community where I can. While my company is making it by, the vast majority of this space isn’t.
I voice my opinions above freely and am always down to hear opposing views; only way forward is through.

Best,
Mack

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Thank you so much for your thoughts. As you know, I share your concerns about the current tooling and the challenges it poses, despite the promise of upcoming features like Scene Graph and MaxVerse. While these developments are encouraging, the need for a stable, reliable environment remains urgent.

Our dependency on Epic for stability and our limited ability to troubleshoot and fix issues independently are significant obstacles. It’s crucial that alongside new features, Epic prioritizes foundational improvements that allow us to maintain and innovate our projects effectively.

Let’s keep pushing for these changes and maintain open communication to ensure our needs are met.

I really appreciate any of you all taking the time to comment here, it really means a lot!

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I am sad that so many great games are hidden from players.

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I honestly agree. As someone who only wants to innovate in the space and help show that Fortnite isn’t just a TPS (third person shooter) I find it extremely difficult to find motivation to continue releasing unique content if at the end of the day it’s just going to get broken and buried.

Epic’s vision for Fortnite is a Metaverse, and their vision for Discovery is a place where players can discover new experiences. What I’m failing to understand is why I just see slop almost everywhere I look. I used to be able to find some hidden gems but now most maps I go into are just the same content reskinned.

On top of all of this, as lengthy and tiresome of a process it is to get into Epic Picks (assuming you didn’t receive a red denial with vague context after waiting six months) it’s not even rewarding for the creator.

The current ecosystem rewards bad actors, and scummy content. It’s been like that for ages now.

So why after all that has been said or done does Epic refuse to elevate great content. Wouldn’t you want Creators who push the boundaries of Fortnite to be the face of the platform instead of greedy Creators (if you even want to call them that) who are finding the next way they can scam kids and get away with only a slap on the wrist?

This is one of many things I don’t get. I understand these low effort shooter experiences drive in a lot of players but why not instead look for a balance and take action on problematic individuals like Geerzy who only seek to abuse the creators, players and the platform any chance they get?

This inconsistency just makes Fortnite look like a joke and has made many Creators who seek to innovate the space lose motivation in making more experiences for the platform that drive in the type of players that Epic is so desperately trying to gain for their Metaverse.

Thank you Mack for speaking up, and I hope that we at the very least receive a clear response that holds true meaning instead of lies. Cause even that is a shot in the dark most times.

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+1, it seems like some moderators check it while others dont. It’s inconsistent and if you are very unlucky not only your map will be banned but also whole account for a week.

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100% Agree. Moderation problems aside, they cannot keep going like this when it comes to updates breaking everything.

They need to figure out a way to separate BR and its code from UEFN/Creative and stop messing up devices every 2 weeks.
Along with that, they also need to separate BR servers from the ecosystem as a WHOLE. Why is every game in creative down just because BR has to update… You don’t see YouTube taking down the whole website for 4+ hours every time they update. There’s HUGE issues going on atm.

Its extremely discouraging seeing these things happen every single time. Moderation not moderating properly. Getting vague rejection reasons. Having your map published + playable for one version, and as soon as you update something minor, it gets rejected for no reason.
Epic’s Picks literally being useless nowadays since its hidden deep within discover where most people don’t bother scrolling.

Certain creators abusing everything they can possibly abuse, to maximize earnings, playtime, likes and favorites. And when they’re caught they just get a slap on the wrist and we are all supposed to be happy with everything going on and pretend there’s nothing wrong here.

There’s almost 0 communication from you, about any of the issues, ongoing issues, concerns. You told us you were working on something after the Geerzy situation but you never told us what that something was.
You guys almost never respond to the forum or discord threads we make, we’re always in the dark about EVERYTHING.

Imagine a AAA company wanting to eventually transition into building with UEFN, having to wait 4+ hours for downtime to end so their game can be playable OR even work in UEFN… the whole engine is down too just because BR/Lego/RR/Festival has an update… I guess said company will now have to wait for Epic to turn the servers on so they can work. :expressionless:

Having 0 control over bugs that their game has since its up to you Epic, you made an oopsie yet again and broke movement and its glitching or there’s ping issues or a device is broken for the 100th time this month. How do you expect people to want to build and grow with you on this platform? When a single BR update breaks half of UEFN or shuts the whole ecosystem down for hours.

You CANT Keep going like this. I’m sure you’re hoping that bigger dev teams will want to join your metaverse + UEFN which is why your next marketing idea was to transfer BR into UEFN so it can hypothetically be more stable and you can show bigger studios that it’s possible to make AAA games. But you haven’t figured out how to make that part stable yet, and we’re getting the worst of it.

Please do better Epic, you’re turning the people who keep trying to make this work away while rewarding bad behavior at the same time.

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Truth to be told, as UGC creators we were ok when a new season launched and the platform was down. We were ok when an update broke our stuff a little, but was hotfixed the next day. Ok when we had to do so many weird workarounds to do a simple thing back in the day. But back then, making and releasing a map mattered, you d get a substantial reward and feel accomplished, because there was featuring that mattered, featuring had multiple forms and was manual, meaning only the great content was visible by players, and we had multiple avenues to get featured (inside hubs, hub designs, callouts, LTMs, all substantial and insanely rewarding). Being featured meant you did something great, and you felt accomplished.

However, albeit the extra immense power that UEFN brought to the table, and its new monetization system, the move hasn’t been handled correctly in all areas. New moderation turned a process that was 2 minutes to days of work without adding anything back for the creator, just made the entire process a slog that acts as the demotivating factor when it most matters, the release phase of the game. Discovery made it so that everyone’s levels were hidden in a pool of popularity now, without any human touch to ensure quality anymore, and the instability now hurts because we have no “fix” when we release, we cannot get that satisfaction of players playing and enjoying our content when the content encounters bugs that now ALSO affects its placement in arbitrary lists (yes, discovery still has bugs and design issues, otherwise you wouldn’t need to follow a guide to have a chance to get placed, you would release and the system would do the rest). We have no fuel in our creative batteries to achieve the level of quality we did back then. Now we have to wait endlessly and roam the socials while we connect to live edit, forgetting all our cool ideas and breaking the flow of development. Creators no longer get highlights that matter within the game, they don’t get truly featured in a way that matters, like an LTM or a portal feature. Creators now DMCA whatever they want to remove as competition, even times just for fun, just to mess with popular content. Games now take months to do instead of weeks because the tools are slower, there is also no large advocate for the creators inside Epic that has direct contact with the community, UEFN feels faceless and without a soul, nobody represents us like before. We cant even talk to Epic anymore and bring our consulting work or ideas to the mix, something that has saved whole events in the past and even made Epic a buttload of money. Ties were now cut, and in the name of being treated fairly, Epic has detached from everyone and is treating great work and large projects similarly to low-effort content.

What happened to Epic hand-picking UGC and turning them into tourneys? Or talking with teams and brands, connecting them to make something great together? Or even crazy events like Fortnite World Cup where the Creative community felt fully involved and was included in these wonderful memories that only Epic could make possible. Collaborating in UGC with creators is the most wonderful thing and it created unbreakable bonds, memories, and killer content. These things made Creative what it is today.

You simply get nothing from making great content now, so as a creator I would understand not making any until there is incentive. Bring back what made Creative great again, including the people who did.

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Thank you Wert. Not only for your talents, but for your friendship, passion, transparency and real commitment to bettering this community. What a great reply.

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Great points have been brought up here by MJ and others.
Thank you for voicing those concerns. I agree with most of them.

As someone who has been around from the beginning, it’s been deeply saddening and painful to have to let go of a career I was sure would be rewarding for many years to come.

The people that have been allowed to make a mockery of the platform have sadly killed the passion of so many talented creators that I believe would have gone on to make some great, innovative things!

As for the constant breaking of features with every update, that really needs to be addressed. Games need to run independently when released so that they won’t break when live. If changes are made/an update is pushed, sure, that’s understandable, but when a live, untouched game is broken, that’s not something devs should ever have to deal with.

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I will add a few things to this:

  • I’m grateful Epic Games allowed me to bring the CTF genre into Fortnite with a dedicated row for it, it’s my biggest achievement. However, this row has been abused since the very first day it launched. Despite many many reports, non-CTF games keep getting added just because these creators changed their tags. It takes literally 1 minute to load into these games to realize they shouldn’t be in that row. Right now, only my map and another one are actual CTF, the rest are basic Red vs Blue or other genres with a CTF tag. Anyone with common sense can load into these games and know they shouldn’t be there.

  • It’s incredibly frustrating having to deal with my game being on the brink of dying every two weeks. Right now I’m dealing with constant crashes that don’t even show in the Verse logs, and to even hope to fix them I have to ask players for their logs. On top of that, everytime I try to innovate this game further, I just kill it even more because a lot of the features we build will not work in Public matchmaking, which is infurating because that means we can never know if something truly works and will not break until we release it to the public, and of course if it breaks the game, we lose valuable Discover placement. So we’re left with the decision of not innovating, or try to innovate with the risk of killing the game.

  • Games should be rewarded for organinc growth from WITHIN THE PLATFORM, not outside. The current system is a popularity contest, if you’re an influencer with thousands or millions of followers you get instant success. If you’re ‘just a creator’ your games get buried after your 5 minutes in Discover. Sure there are exceptions when an exceptional game gets more exposure, but the way this system is designed is not only unfair for ACTUAL CREATORS but also very easy to manipulate. The meta FOR MONTHS has been making fake XP glitch videos on tiktok to get into Most Searched and Community Mommentum. The Gun Game, One Shot, and Deathrun rows are filled with games that got into Discover through this method. How about we reward games that get actual player engagement IN THE PLATFORM instead of games that got thousands of players because an influencer told them to? “Become an influencer” is just a flawed response to this as you can’t expect every single creator to become an influencer overnight and compete with insanely popular Youtubers.
    YOU CAN’T JUST OVERLOOK THE ACTUAL CREATORS WHO MADE THIS SPACE WHAT IT IS TODAY IN FAVOR OF A FEW YOUTUBERS WHO WILL JUMP INTO THE NEXT POPULAR GAME TOMORROW IF FORTNITE IS NO LONGER RELEVANT.

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Posted a list of some actionable items that will help the ecosystem overall and allow creators to pursue higher quality content:

https://twitter.com/Wertandrew/status/1788029639031488602

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