One of our latest submissions actually missed a SM_ prefix on a single mesh and it was noted as reason for failure. We did not attempt to fix it because such issues collectively have eaten too much of our time on every single submission. You do hard work for weeks, then your submission fails due to such tiny issues. That constantly decreases anyone’s motivation to continue.
Fun fact, tons of submissions failed since Marketplace’s existence due to not having 0 connected to Metallic input. It was only after 2 long years of constant complaints that they finally decided to double check that with the engineers, only to find out that it’s actually breaking PBR when connecting 0 to Metallic slot. This 10 seconds conversation with an engineer regarding Metallic could be done 2 years ago when we first brought it up. Point being, simplest things take years to be looked into. Too many issues like that exist around marketplace that’s degraded the general experience to the lowest, darkest places.
I feel you Maximum-Dev… Hopefully they’ll see some of this and start being a bit more transparent with us, that’s the very least they could do. We may not be professional developers like they are - but we if any will be understanding and supportive if things needs to be re-structured and it will be taking time.
I hold Epic very close to my heart despite this whole ordeal being pathetic. I’m sure they’ll come to a solution eventually that benefits not only us but also them. Only time will tell.
Actually many marketplace sellers are professional. For some it may be a hobby, but for others including myself and other high tier sellers it is a business. The problem is, we are treated like hobbyists rather than professionals. We aren’t given the most basic tools necessary for running an online business. This isn’t the case with any other marketplace and is why there is such a stark difference between the App Store or Steam and Epic.
Thats actually exactly what i tried to say, but you seem more successful with expressing yourself
Well, as said, it CAN be the case. That doesnt mean that it IS the case. If this is really developed internally, things start to make sense. I dont want to bad-mouth anyone, but real professionals in webdev would have built the marketplace from ground up including upload of assets and automating tasks and much more shiny within max half a year. And we are talking about 1 frontend and 1 backend dev. But it seems that they found out that some of the devs they have can do a bit of php and javascript and set them to do the marketplace page in their spare time or something like that.
I actually gave up putting pressure on anyone. Luckily i am not depending on marketplace sales here. And i am really not sure whats up with all the silence right now, and all the things like “cool stuff is coming but we cant tell you when and what”. I mean, with Jon Jones at least i had the FEELING of transparency on the marketplace, and he actually responded to things (at least to me).
But i also have no idea whats generally the issue with communication for the marketplace. I mean, they have bought the Zendesk abo, which is a professional tool for CRM and communication through tickets. And then tickets get overseen/lost/etc? I mean, this doesnt mean that there is a bad process, it means there is NO process whatsoever. Come to work in the morning, query open tickets, check status. That shouldnt be so hard.
I do have the feeling though that something big is coming, and its not winter. Its either all the tools we need for the marketplace released by the end of the month (or something in that direction), or a full closure of the marketplace (unlikely). Anyway, the complete silence of the team is making me nervous.
Careful? Careful of what? I don’t even understand what you are implying by this statement. “Bitter criticism” is the literal definition of the word Vitriol and that is what all of these threads devolve to, this thread being case and point. Sure may be some constructiveness in here, but bitterness is the overwhelming mood here. Not that it isn’t deserved but stirring up ■■■■, in the public forum instead of using the creators forum, isn’t helping your cause, it’s only hurting us as a whole by raising this stink in the eyes of the customers that trust the marketplace enough to spend money on our products, that and taking up real estate where creators could be advertising their products
I think he has posted this thread in the public forum because Creator’s Hub has been long abandoned by staff, literally no one from Epic posts in there. But in the public forum there’s a better chance of getting a reply. There’s no point in creating a thread in Creator’s Hub really since OP ends up talking to themselves or with other sellers who are experiencing the same problems and can’t be of any aid. And besides that, this is a public issue. There are a lot of people willing to become a seller here so they deserve to know what they’re stepping into.
Edit: I think we’re discussing how Epic is handling MP as a platform. This shouldn’t affect people’s trust in the products being sold.
You’re accusing those with legitimate concerns of being bitter and that’s is beyond ridiculous. Constructive criticism =| bitter criticism, hence my point. You are making an assumption that is not based on reality. The only reason this is posted in the public forum is so that way people can know what’s going on behind the scenes, and as @Maximum-Dev pointed out the creator’s hub forum seldom gets replies from the staff. We are largely ignored there. At the very least customers should know why sellers are being driven from the UE4 marketplace. I don’t see why you feel the need to cover the issues up. None of us are responsible for the problems here, this rests solely on Epic. Not pointing the finger, just stating the facts. So it’s a bit strange of you to suggest we are the ones eroding the publics trust when in fact we are the only ones at the moment being transparent here and letting customers know what’s going on.
I don’t think any of us like this situation, but that doesn’t mean we don’t speak up about it otherwise we will never be able to accomplish effective change that will benefit both customers and sellers.
Thus far we’ve carried on a civil discussion, the only one who seems to be generating any heat at the moment is you though I’m not sure why. I would appreciate it if we could keep it on topic rather than smearing your fellow marketplace sellers or assigning baseless assumptions of intent behind our issues or discussion.
I disagree with the idea that it’s hypocritical for the Marketplace to take 30% while decrying places like Steam and the iOS App Store taking the same amount for a couple of really obvious reasons:
Marketplace is actually curated to some degree with QA and testing. This is not the case for Steam or App Store at all, there is no QA at all.
Marketplace is small and thus gives visibility to your product to a much higher degree than Steam or App Store do
Steam/App Store simply don’t provide anything of value to the developer for the cut they’re taking, they’re essentially a glorified CDN at this point, due to the glut of titles
Every criticism of Tim’s stance on this seems to miss these key points, on which nearly the entire argument rests.
Valid points… But, its also valid that the MP has been in terrible shape for its three years in service. Repeated delays, no communication, etc. If the MP was ran well, not sure anyone would mind paying the 30 percent…??
I have to agree with @ on this, some of the Seller here treat MP as a serious business, but the review time + MP staff respond is kind of disappointing most of the serious seller, Steam put the effort to promote their game saler product, sometime I can see that ancient game appear at the steam main page as recommended for you, or some old game get pop into front-page, and MP just put the same object in the front-page for almost a month
That’s actually debatable. There has been many instances of inconsistencies regarding what gets on and what is rejected on the marketplace. There have even been a few cases of AAA game content being sold on the UE4 marketplace and having to be removed which I would imagine is concerning for the purchasers who were unaware of that. Also as far as I’m aware the App Store does indeed curate apps. Not everything goes through.
The marketplace is actually growing, and has been for some time. And even if it were small, that’s no legitimate reason alone for 30%. Especially since not much is done to help sellers obtain exposure. I just gave the example of featured content for new releases not being updated for nearly a month in one case, and 2 weeks just recently. That doesn’t help new releases get any exposure when you aren’t updating the featured content to reflect new additions. Steam also promotes content on their marketplace, and due to their significantly large consumer base would mean more sales than a smaller scale platform.
I’m not too familiar with Steam so I’ll let someone else debate that who is, but the App Store provides real time sales data (which UE4 had, but removed despite our opposition when it was floated as an idea) and Analytics which are instrumental to any business whether you’re online or not. The App Store also allows developers to issue their own Promo Codes, which would be useful here for the launch of an item. Steam has a tag system which is useful for large marketplaces (Right now users have to browse through pages to find what they want. It’s somewhat manageable, but as the marketplace continues to grow it will get more cumbersome). Wishlists are also another basic feature for online commerce, both the App Store and Steam have those - the latter with notification on whether something is on sale. A particularly useful feature for customers.
The App Store, and I’d imagine Steam, allows developers to update their own content. I lost track of how many sellers have said they haven’t had their 4.17 content uploaded yet. And what’s unfortunate about that is customers see the product isn’t using the latest version and assume a product was abandoned when in many cases the seller submitted the update weeks ago.
Steam & Apple both have a vastly superior customer base than Epic. Steam also heavily promotes content (especially indie) in their marketplace. Virtually every seller who has tried has struggled to get a simple retweet for a major product promotion despite being promised one.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by your last statement specifically?
I also feel it necessary to point out, I don’t think anyone here would be opposed to 30% cut if the service and tools provided justified it. That’s why I pointed out the App Store and Steam could at least justify the royalty cut. They offer far more tools and features for the sellers than Epic does. Most of the stuff developers can do on those platforms are handled manually by staff here, and when something happens delays in communication or product releases affects everyone. (And another obligatory disclaimer: I am in no way criticizing the staff for this. We are all human. Just pointing out that no large scale operation can ever proceed without any bumps along the road, and when everything hinges on smoothness of the operation a simple slip up can cause major issues.)
I alluded to it above, but yes. I can say with certainty I wouldn’t if we were given the tools required for the basic operation of an online business such as Gumroad, the App Store or Steam. I know many other sellers who feel the same way.
I would say Yes. Epic provides a Powerful Development Platform for FREE and provides the Unreal Marketplace (UMP) via Launcher & Web to distribute supplemental products. The UMP is the only online store I trust for UnrealEngine related Products due to the curation.
I’m also looking at this from a Content Creator’s position as intend to publish products of my own to the UMP. I’m including the 30% split in my Pricepoint/Retail Markup to set price accordingly. With Sales, a 30% split is negated by Sale discounts (some which are upto 80%). My strategy is to diversify my distribution and aggressively advertise my products.
How do you feel about the examples I cited above, of the curation team letting AAA game content that is copyright protected (one of which from Bethesda) onto the marketplace? (@Luos has the specifics as IIRC he was the one who caught them). Or are you aware that AAA developers have had their high quality content rejected for inapplicable reasons? And again, we’re all human, but to suggest content that is approved on the UE4 marketplace is somehow infallible is a bit far in my humble opinion. There are products that were let through that have very low ratings and negative reviews complaining about broken functions or misleading product promotions. I’ve even encountered an example of that with a pretty pricey purchase myself recently.
I guess my point is, why put trust in a system that isn’t consistent rather than a seller who is proven to be a capable and reliable product creator? When sellers are driven from the UE4 marketplace due to the issues and try to post their content on Gumroad which is a platform more beneficial to them & the consumer - customers tend to abandon them. Despite the fact that the seller would be able to provide better service there, people are hesitant to follow even if they have a proven track record of quality products and customer service. I’ve seen this quite a bit with reputable sellers here. And at that point they’re faced with two choices: Quit making products altogether, or go back to UE4 and suffer through long excessive wait times, lack of features, and inconsistencies with the review process.
I don’t want to dive to far off the topic, but it’s just something I find interesting to hear from the customer’s perspective such as yourself. =)
And btw if you believe Epic is entitled to 30% just for the sake of redistribution despite all the delays ,lack of support, tools and communication, then you should be against 's statement regarding other stores charging an unjustified 30% as well because why criticize those stores if you’re providing less support and services but are not charging one less penny?
Now this thread is at the point where most of the issues are discussed in the first page so new readers please read through.
@. Your experience as a Content Provider is way greater than my own. From my own consumer perspective, I assume Content Providers agree to the Epic Terms. From that point forward, my only concern is whether or not your product solves my problem after I acquire it. BTW, I love your Sci-Fi products and they’re one of few I would trust distributed in other than UMP. However, I discovered your products through the UMP and my trust carries over doe the trust established with your work in the UMP.
I simply don’t look in other distribution Channels for UE4 Products. I prefer shop for UE4 Products from the UE4 Store, as I assume the Content Providers understand my needs. However, I have occasionally purchased products for UE4 not in UMP from content providers would have established trust in the Unreal Community. The most important part in that instance, is that they provided me a link to them. I would chalk that up to good conversational marketing.
@Maximum-Dev I’m not voting against a lower %, just stating that its a upfront fixed value, we can compensate for, by incorporating it into my retail pricepoint. That missing slice is transferred to the consumer. I would anticipate other Content Providers are already doing so.
In regards to 5% royalty, well, you have to complete, produce, commercially distribute, and generate a profit. If one can get that far, they are doing fantastic. But there many Gamer Devs that use UE4 to develop non-commercial games.
To some up the debate, people are interested in these scenarios:
A) Epic reduces the 30% cut to compensate for the absence of standard online store features and services.
B) Epic provides the online store standard features and services to compensate for the 30% cut.
I’m sure most people prefer option B because with proper tools they can do a lot better than earning an extra 10%-20%.
Currently the provided features/services and 30% cut doesn’t add up together and people are unhappy to find Epic’s CEO paying more attention to other stores than his own.
We have no way of enforcing Epic to do anything of course. It’s a matter of what’s fair and justified, besides the fact that making it more convenient for sellers means more sellers, more content and more money for Epic.
Just like we as sellers try to improve the experience for buyers by putting some extra effort into the process i.e by creating different support channels to provide real time support (see my signature), it would be really nice if Epic, also finally take a few steps forward towards creating a better environment for sellers.
Regarding MP vs. other stores, in many instances it’s the same MP content that are being sold on the other store. If you visit the Gumroad link in my signature, content being sold there are an exact copy of the content submitted to Epic with only difference being it would probably take more than a month until they’re published on MP. The fact that lots of people assume they would regret buying from other stores is a contributing factor to current MP issues. If the culture was mature enough to support the content creators outside MP as well then MP’s exposure wouldn’t have been so vital to us to stick to it despite suffering from it and Epic would’ve tried to create a better MP experience long ago. People should realize in order for legit content creators to do better work they need to be supported regardless of what platform it is they’re selling on because in the end you’re buying the same content from the same creator. We’ve had developers with solid AAA backgrounds whose work were rejected on MP due to false MP guidelines, do people with AAA backgrounds and full time jobs really bother going through all the drama in hopes of getting a product out on MP after ~3 months? of course not, they leave this platform in an instant. It shouldn’t have been like that and like I said, we have no way of enforcing Epic to improve MP’s features, tools, services, review processes, update processes and so on, but it’s a matter of what it is and what it could be. MP is a gold mine for Epic, not only revenue wise but in many other aspects as well. I hope one day they realize that and start re-evaluate the platform from ground up.
This is my last post here until Mr. [USER=“35”][/USER]; leaves a reply because I don’t like the idea of talking to ourselves. =D
This thread is a good example of the lack of communication between marketplace developers and Epic. Not only has staff been tagged, it has also been on the front page and is a major issue.
