Dynamic blob shadow ?

motorsep · April 15, 2016, 4:49am

Alright, since I haven’t heard back, I gave it another spin and made it happen

I literally recreated material setup from Showdown because I couldn’t wrap my head around the noodles. Then it turned out that ground plane is always fixed. So in order for shadow to show up, I had to tweak it manually and it didn’t really work when there was different floor elevations. So I added BP to adjust that parameter every frame. That worked wonderfully.

Another observation I made was about these fake shadows not acting as decals. So it’s they would be used on a terrain, the edges of the shadow mesh would wedge into terrain and will be clipped. Looks pretty ugly.

Here is what I am talking about:

Full image: http://s30.postimg.org/lg1hoiv2n/blob_shadow_clipping.png

How can I make attached (via sockets) static blob shadow meshes to be always parallel to the floor ? (so no matter how model is animated and how the bone rotates, attachment would always remain at its natural angles)

RyanB · April 15, 2016, 4:58am

If you know it is always going to be on a flat ground and you know the Z height you could simply use the vertex shader. Take your floor height and subtract WorldPosition.Z. Then multiply by 0,0,1 and hook to worldpositionoffset. Then add like 0,0,2 or something to keep it from zfighting.

For bullettrain I solved it another way, using the vertex shader to shrink to the foot position and then re-expand along flattened local vectors.

To support slopes the easiest method is oversized geometry and using the worldposition behind translucency.

motorsep · April 15, 2016, 1:41pm

Well, I assume that’s what big robot blob shadow does in Showdown VR demo, doesn’t it?

Could you please post the material for such blob shadow? :o (assuming it’s mobile friendly)

Well, as you can see my shadow plane is oversized, but it clips into the floor instead of render over it (as if it’s a decal). I still can’t find any examples or docs/tutorials about “worldposition behind translucency”. I’ll post my material setup after work and I wonder if you could modify it with “worldposition behind translucency” so I could have final piece of the puzzle with blob shadows solved and move on :o (and whoever else needs it would find an out-of-the-box solution useful). Could you please do that ?

RyanB · April 15, 2016, 2:20pm

Sorry by oversized geometry I meant in full 3d… your plane is flat so it never gets oversized on Z, you need it to be encompassing the entire volume around the characters foot.

I will try to get an image soon of that but I promise its literally just WorldPositionBehindTranslucency and then you subtract objectposition and then you divide by whatever your shadow size needs to be. Then you add 0.5 since UVs are in 0-1 not -1 to 1 (since subtracting objectposition puts the center at 0 not 0.5).

oh and component mask the RG channels before hooking up to texture UVs.

motorsep · April 15, 2016, 11:17pm

Probably late, but here is my master material for blob shadow:



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Here is the video showing how it works:

As you can see it only works for one hardwired ground height and it clips into the floor Could you please modify it to not clip into the floor (and I’ll add inverted hemisphere to each foot if needed) and to work with any ground height automatically? (unless I need to trace down from each foot, get Z coordinate and pass it to that GroundHeight parm)

Currently this is how I keep blobs on the floor and aligned (most likely not the fastest way, and shadows still clip into slopes/walls):

Full image: http://s21.postimg.org/sv0yyd0s5/blob_shadow_adjustment.png

Thanks beforehand!

RyanB · April 17, 2016, 2:40pm

Try the oversized box method I mentioned above, and scale the Z down to be the “maximum cast distance” so it looks like your character is standing on tall platform boxes. Then you can do a few things to improve it:

use worldposition behind translucency XY so the shadow is always on the floor below the character, the box just has to be long enough. You could also use a line trace to dynamically reposition the shadow but I wouldn’t go down the route, I’d more make the effect a local thing that fades out since it would be cheaper and less unpredictable.
by using the worldpos behind translucency Z and then using the cube shadows local bounds to normalize, you can create a fading effect that can both fade the alpha and fade to a separate wider/blurrier image (try channel packing 2-3 levels of blur) so that the shadows soften as they fade out.

motorsep · April 19, 2016, 2:24pm

Hitting the wall here again (probably because I don’t get along with shaders)

Ryan, I don’t mean to sound like a total d!ck (after your wrote down how to resolve it), but would it be possible if you could just modify my material to get it working per your specs and post it here? I am sure whole a lot of people would find it quite useful.

sivan · April 19, 2016, 7:51pm

Yeah it would be great to have a cheap fake shadow example…

motorsep · April 19, 2016, 7:53pm

What I posted works, but not quite there yet because it clips into geometry and only works on the fixed Z of the world space.

sivan · April 19, 2016, 8:03pm

I see, but I use landscape and some stairs beside flat surfaces…

motorsep · April 21, 2016, 6:21pm

@: Do you think you could make modifications to my material so we all could use it and learn from it? :o (or maybe a clean new material?)

Thanks

RyanB · April 21, 2016, 6:22pm

I am sorry but I do not have time.

dorklord_666 · May 17, 2016, 5:50am

Chiming in to say that this would be great. Understand is busy, but if any experienced technical artists could enlighten the rest of us plebs we would all be grateful. x

xDiavalx · December 9, 2016, 2:53pm

@motorsep : I looked back at this thread and I noticed a mistake in the blueprint network: Per tick you create a new material instance. Instead you should create one material instance in the Construction Script and save the reference to a variable. Then you can change the parameters of the material instance per tick by referring to it via the variable.

motorsep · December 9, 2016, 3:00pm

How would I do that precisely? (sorry, I am not that proficient in Blueprint yet)

Thanks

xDiavalx · December 9, 2016, 3:18pm

@motorsep :
In construction script:

Rightclick on the return pin and promote to variable to get the variable.
(Note that your variables will be different. I assign the seccond material slot, for example.)

In the Event Graph, you do the same as you did, but rip out the create material instance nodes and replace their references with the variable. (Drag the variable in, select “Get” and plug that into target.)

Also remove the “Set World Rotation” nodes. Those are for positioning stuff (geometry/components) inside the world. What you need to do is give the X Y and Z position of the center of your shadow (basically your hit location) to the Material via blueprint and then in the material you put a sphere mask at this position and compare that against you pixels’ world position to generate a mask. - I will work it out for my own project and share a bit later (probably Monday).

xDiavalx · December 9, 2016, 3:34pm

In the material you basically need this:

the output of the SphereMask is your mask. Probably neet to 1-x and then multply it with your ground shader parts that you want to darken.
Hardness is how hard your shadow is.
Radius is the radius of the shadow.
PrimeLocation is the parameter you set with the blueprint. (X Y Z and the alpha is kinda wasted, but you could use it for something else. You can set a vector parameter instead of a float parameter, with a different blueprint node.)

motorsep · December 9, 2016, 3:35pm

That would great, thanks. I am not a material guy per se (come from pre-PBR, pre-shaders era), so all that stuff talked about just boggles my mind

xDiavalx · December 12, 2016, 4:43pm

@ :
1.a.:Are Sphere_AO and SphereMask the same thing (under the hood)? - I guess SphereMask also has a built-in power function (to control the “Hardness”).
1.b.: Is SphereMask as expensive as Sphere_AO with a power node and its position calculation tweaked?

2.a.: If I understood you correctly, the WorldSpaceBehindTranslucency method is performance equivalent to a decal actor, but has the advantage that it is possible to optimize the mesh shape (which saves on overdraw). Is this still correct? Are decal actors not more optimized, because they are built for the specific purpose?
2.b.: I can copy the WorldSpaceBehindTranslucency method from the Showdown VR demo, so this is not very important to me, but I suggest Epic could use the subUV-cut-out tech that you use for particles and apply it on decal meshes (as an opt-in option). Does that sound like a good idea?
2.c.: I compared the system suggested in 2.b. with the new decal mesh feature. And as far as I understand decal meshes derive their projection direction from their vertex or point normals. Is that correct?

How is the new forward render (theoretically) affecting the WorldSpaceBehindTranslucency and the decal method performance wise?

@motorsep: You can get the CouchKnight project and look at the blueprint of the playable character (the knight girl). It has decals attached to its feet that function as shadows. You should try using that method.

If that doesn’t work, you can get the showdown VR demo and look at the Robot blueprint in the scene. There is BlobShadow1 through 4 static meshes with an instance of the WorldSpaceBehindTranslucency material set up. I guess it is best if you just copy that.

xDiavalx · December 12, 2016, 4:58pm

Could you elaborate on this? - I am not quite clear on what this solves or where it is implemented. (Is this in the floor material or in meshes attached to the soldiers’ feet?)

Is there any chance the Bullettrain project will be shared?

Any ideas on how to support a very uneven surface with huge mesh gaps at 90degree angles?
I was considering using the WorldSpaceBehindTranslucency method with a height-fade based on worldposition (assuming that the actual movement of the shadow happens in a plane of a fixed height).