Does this mean that games cant be moddable?

I know I am coming into late, but it strikes me as a disappointment. First I must say that I come to UE4 after looking at just about every other ‘engine’ solution out there I could find. And what I see from the start is impressive, way impressive in terms of the tools. But I also come to point from an old game and an old engine. Freely available tools for mapping, scripting outside of the compiled game that allowed the game to be modded. Yes, a different generation of game/engine … but it is still, as old as it is, very widely played, and new maps and mods made all the time, renewing interest in it.

When I came to UE4 I saw the possibilities of making a FPS shooter game that would surpass the limits of those older games, offering much better gameplay and graphics. But considering the mapping and modding I have done, I hoped that (and got a subscription without finding out if any of was possible) UE4 would provide for gamers to make their own maps that they can share and people can run on their dedicated servers (at a minimum) and that when a user connects to a server where they are running a map the client does not have, it can be set to download that map then launch the player into the game. Of course hopes for modability as well, adding new weapons or game types.

Yes, I understand that someone can pay 19 bucks, get the editor, or if it’s a different version than the game was made with, download older source and build it… but let’s face reality, most gamers that do a bit of modding and mapping would be overwhelmed with all the tools in the editor… and most game makers are not going to give them their game project so they can rebuild it after modifying it some… I don’t know about scripting to ‘mod’ a game made with UE4, that may just not be possible. But cutting down the UE4 editor to a simple map editor that lets you build materials for maps, import meshes and the general features that allow you you build and compile a level so it can be shared and added to servers, would be beyond awesome.

I know a lot of business and money decisions go into all of , but when an 8 year old game can still have a following and active mapping/modding community due to free tools to allow that mapping and modding to happen, that means that developer is still selling copies of that old game. I know a lot of other games out there where the tools do not exist to make maps or add them, or mod at all, and even those those games are much newer, have far better graphics, they are dead for the most part. So if money is the consideration, consider that any game maker that uses UE4 to make a popular game that a mapping/modding community can form around, they will probably be bringing in money a lot longer than a game without that capacity. Which of course with the 5% deal with UE4, means Epic will make money off that game longer.

Things to think about. Now I have to go back to hundreds of tutorials and thousands of threads to read and figure out if engine can accomplish what I want, or if I need to drop it (which honestly would suck… but I have a vision and will not let an engine limit it).

We have plans to allow for third party maps.

BUT <see big but :slight_smile:

Blueprints is scary to allow with out restrictions as someone could be playing the best game ever and next thing you know the player is playing Tappy Chicken, or worst, because some 3rd party decided to be funny, or worst.

Needed before hand is the ability to compile a blueprint to a usable map entity that can not be edited.

Just saying.

The not possible (free) modding is definitely the worst part of UE4, I just hope they will change it at any time (before I finish my game :p).

We can see that a subscription-based, full-featured engine with full source can seem a bit heavyweight for modding and certain other scenarios. Stay tuned for improvements in area.

Great to hear that from you, ! :cool:

I am developing a RTS game, and I think you know most RTS really depend on maps made by the community. If Epic could offer a “default” Map maker which is customizable by the developer to fit the specific needs, that would be awesome.
For example I would not want people to be able to use any blueprint stuff, I just want people to be able to create their own landscapes (sculpt and paint), place predefined actors (buildings, trees), set stuff like mission target or mission description, and then safe it and upload it somewhere. And I would want to create my own UI for that.
Other developers may want to allow blueprint scripts or the import of custom meshes, but should all be possible to disable/enable by the developer.

Very interesting topic on modding! I totally support moddable games.
However, I can see many points here.

  1. I certainly like Epic’s attempt to build a solid community of developers. Having a forum where all engine developers and modders can chat together. Having access to complete game tools and source code. Those are fascinating opportunities for the mod creators, especially for those with serious intentions. Add more maps? Add more weapons? Add new cutscenes? Change game’s ending? Create a completely new story? Port the game to another platform? Whatever they want! It’s just $19 away! is something that I certainly like.

  2. However, there’s more casual category of modders. The guys who just want to play with the editor: open existing maps, see how they were made, replace a texture, create a room with their nickname on the wall, then try to create a better map or write a simple script. These guys don’t want to dive into C++ code or mess with source control, don’t want to purchase engine license, read and accept additional license agreements etc. They just want to go to the game’s binary directory and see if there’s something like Editor.exe =)

  3. Currently the Unreal Editor is more suitable for creating games rather than mods. What modders can do with it is to download a game project, modify it and then release it as a completely new version of the game, including a new executable. Someone in thread asked what’s the difference between a mod and a game based on another game. In my opinion, the difference is that you cannot play a mod if you don’t have a copy of the game. Imagine if your game is not free, but you have a full SDK for it. If anyone can make a free standalone modification using your SDK then anyone can release your whole game for free. doesn’t feel right. Also, players should be able to install multiple mods into one copy of the game.

I think we can find a consensus here and I’m looking forward to any improvements in the mod workflow.

Well, the solution to was just resolved. Thanks to @ Sweeney now the engine is free, which means modders will have access to the editor to make mods and levels and such.

Now our job as game makers will be to figure out what and how to provide modders with just enough stuff to mod, without giving away the whole game. Any thoughts on ?

I am thinking some sort of ‘base pack’ if you want to give them access to static models and such for mapping. As for modding, perhaps your game will need a ‘hook’ that looks in a new directory for new gamemodes, new characters, etc…

It’ll definitely be interesting to figure out the optimal mod workflow. Why do you think you’d have to give away your whole game? People would still have to buy it in order to be able to mod or play it.

https://www.unrealengine./eula

Even though the engine is now free, the engine EULA still forbids redistribution of engine tools which can be a pain if you’re using a custom build of the engine. It doesn’t look like anything has changed on that page since the announcement.

But now you don’t have to tell your customers that they have to pay for the Engine when you provide a Game Editor experience via f.e. GitHub, as its just free. They just need to register for it.

It would be nice to have an official statement on that as well.

I guess you could fork the engine and distribute your version via GitHub, but that would of course raise the entry barrier for some modders. Or maybe you could distribute your custom binary over GitHub as well. I think they have a release or download available.

Yes, GitHub has release downloads, so it should be easy to distribute an editor without paying attention if someone has the right to use editor code.

Hi everyone,

The rules for sharing the Engine, source code, or Editor haven’t changed much with today’s announcement. As has been noted, it is now easier for someone to obtain access to the Engine. However, there has been a small change to the EULA to clarify how modding tools can be distributed:

In case, “public Distribution” refers to distributions to end users (modders), not sharing amongst your dev team. If you have any specific questions regarding , please feel free to ask here or post on the Legal & Licensing section of the AnswerHub.

Read 's post.

So now it is not subscription based but still “a bit heavyweight” so we should still stay tuned for improvements :cool:

So to clarify…

It’d be okay to put up an suitable build of Tools using Developer/Editor source code as a release download on GitHub inside the Epic organization of GitHub?

I believe is correct. By making a fork of the Unreal Engine source code and adding in your modding tools, you can make that fork available to modders, but they will only be able to access it if they have an Unreal Engine account linked to their GitHub account (which is the intent of the EULA language). Unfortunately I am not a lawyer, so if you need a definitive answer to your question it may be best to ask on the AnswerHub. Our legal team catches most of the questions that are posted in the Legal & Licensing section.

Mikand79, yes. You can start distributing game mod tools including customized versions of the Unreal Editor and even source through forks of UE4 on GitHub, and is fully supported right now.

We are also working on a more user-friendly framework for distributing these things through the Marketplace. Check out the Unreal Tournament tab to see the current state of things.

John, we recommend that each game project customize the editor as appropriate for its modding needs, because the tradeoff on features versus ease of use will depend on the project. Check out the UT Editor, which has some customizations compared to the base Unreal Editor to help guide users down the right path, including removing the “New Project” functionality (which breaks the UT workflow) and adding a new “Share” button.

Unreal Tournament provides an example of “modding best practices” based on the current state of the art, though we’ll be doing a lot more in area throughout 2015.

So we should no longer stay tuned for modding improvements? :frowning:

I have no idea how I could “customize” the editor so much that people can only sculpt a landscape, place predefined actors and save it… I would have to remove about 99% of the features :confused:
And beyond that I would ideally want to integrate the “map editor” directly inside of the game. So in the main menu you just choose between “Singleplayer, Multiplayer, Map Editor”. The UE4 Editor is way too complex for the type of modding I need for my game. I want to have my own (UMG) UI and everything very “WYSIWYG”, so placing of predefined actors should work the same way people place buildings during normal RTS gameplay and so on… But at the moment I just cannot put the landscape sculpting and other needed features into the game.

I certainly hope you do not need to give away the whole game in order for someone to make a mod. But as of yet I am unfamiliar with any ‘hooks’ you can put in your game (if they exist) that would allow it to see a ‘mod’ in a folder and either replace stock content or add new content. Oh, and by ‘give away the whole game’ what I really meant is more along the lines of how much ‘source’ from the game would need to be open to people…

I’m not sure why you think you would need to give away the whole game for mods. You need only distribute header files and a pre-built library if you want mods to be able to link directly to your own module.

That is of course assuming the mod requires building C++ code. With new features like Blueprints and a data-driven workflow, that might not be necessary.