Do not understand the point of MarketPlace

thing is assets are the smallest factor to a game’s success, coding, game design, and balance are key, and having artists sit around for months just so you can make sure your AI can walk around rock models correctly, or are able to turn the corner in a dungeon, or that your car’s physics when going over that wooden bridge work, are far more important and time consuming then the assets, but you don’t want to have artists on your team, make a ton of assets, and then go to sleeper mode while you work on everything else. Also artists that are good aren’t cheap, and if they are they want a team or game that will make it to release. so seeing games that are well prototyped, and are their way code, system, and design wise, really peaks their interest, cause they hate nothing more even if getting paid to spend 10 hours on that model just for it to never get used ever. So having the prototypes available has lots of merrit and value. Then there is the fact that good world building is more important than a unique palm tree.

As someone without any skill in modelling, without lots of money to pay someone to create unique art, without the pull to attract an artist to work with me for only royalties, and being only a hobby lone game programmer, my only options are to find 3d models online and get frustrated trying to get them UE ready, or buy through the marketplace as UE friendly models. Perfect fit for me right now.

It will be amazing for people doing more architecture focused stuff. Being able to get proper furniture and real plants will be great. Unfortunately the marketplace is a little bit undeveloped at the moment and I have a pretty big demand for that kind of stuff at the moment.

My opinion is my opinion, and therefore by definition cannot be incorrect. In MY opinion (which incidentally is shared by others in my professional working environment), is that it’s a lazy approach to development. It will prevent your game from standing out in a sea of carbon copies that share the same assets. Some mundane things can indeed be re-used, characters, monsters and various other centre-pieces cannot. Bought assets are great for prototyping, but I would never consider using them in a final build without considerable re-development towards my own tastes, unless it was absolutely perfect for the task in hand and I knew nobody else had done it already. There was a big argument a few years ago about a source-engine game using ‘stolen’ Half-Life textures, when actually it turned out that Valve used a texture pack they found online.

People WILL notice things shared between games. I’ve seen a tonne of games that use UDK’s default Sky for example. That puts me off enough not to buy it because it makes me believe the rest of the game will have equal lack of attention. I would also never consider employing a level designer for example, who couldn’t produce his or her own content, or an FX artist that couldn’t put together their own particle systems or sprite textures.

Also, if you have already spent time making original content, why buy a rock or a tree when you already have it? If the ones on marketplace are more improved than yours, then there are still things to learn IMO.

For those that only wish to program that’s fine, but a programmer alone will struggle to make a complete game on their own anyway. Art is part of the development pipeline, nobody can be a one-man army. Great for prototypes, possibly useful for learning, but unsuitable for real development is my opinion on the marketplace. If you’re able to make money from it, more power to you.

It can. And it is.
Just to explain to you that you are not confused by logic anymore:

Assume for a moment, that this is your opinion:

“Dogs are not mammals.”

Is this correct? Not. Is it yours? Yes.

That’s the proof that your opinion can be incorrect. But you have to use logic to deduce it.

I don’t have it, because I was busy creating original content and rock or tree or a grass do not fall into that category.

And on the topic of laziness and re-usability:
So if you see third party stuff in epic’s code for example, you immediately assume that they are bunch of lazy, lame assess, that cannot be bothered (or aren’t skilled enough) to write their own stuff? Is that the way your reasoning and logic works? Wow…

I’ll point out that the Unity Asset Store has been very successful for them, and for a variety of development. There are a lot of uses for game engines, not just “games”. It is often time massively cheaper and smarter for a company to either get a head start on content by purchasing it outright or simply solving their content needs fully. There are many many companies world wide that will never hire the resources necessary to do all their work in house…and short contracts or oursourcing are not viable for monetary reasons AND for time reasons. And that’s another point…time is often the mitigating factor in utilizing pre-made assets. A company may have talented resources but will give them about 10% of the time needed to create the assets or project needed.

Exactly.
As I’ve said in one of my earlier posts. Everything is possible, doable, managable etc etc. The only problem is time (lack of it).

Hey all, just a reminder to keep the discussion professional and respectful.

Thanks!

It is important to remember that while your statement is correct smallB “The only problem is time”, you are missing a vital piece of information. Triple A studios with preset art directions never buy generic mesh assets, animation data, or sequence data that is mass produced to the public. (At least none that I have worked at). There are many reasons why we steer clear of doing such things.

A few of those reasons are:

  1. It is incredibly rare to find an asset with a tailored style that fits completely (or mostly) within the guidelines of the preset and unique art style derived by the writers and concept artists.
  2. If there were a rare situation in which an asset was found, the time to fix it is still a factor. Yes, it could be that you save a day of work. But you could also lose a day, or 2, or 3 trying to fix errors or modify the style of the pre-existing content to match your requirements.
  3. The truth is though, there is certain content that is exiled from the possible pool of purchasing when it comes to mass distribution of content (regarding AAA studios I have worked at). In my personal experience, we stay away from things such as meshes, (most characters :: unless it is something such as a generic character mesh of a construction worker - In which case, we could use them “maybe” as a filler in a city scene - and I have never seen this actually happen, but I guess it could be a possibility, but highly unlikely), mass produced animation, sequence data, etc. Some of the things we DO consider and regularly buy that is mass produced are things such as - Digital Photography, Matte Plates, Location Photography, Textures, Tools, Plugins, etc.

To come back to my initial point. Marketplaces are not fall-backs for time loss (in the AAA gaming industry). No, when we don’t meet deadlines we go into something called a Death March. My last one was 5 months long and it is one of the most difficult things to endure. This is the reality of what happens when you run out of time (or are pressed for time you don’t have). Companies don’t say “well guys and gals, we ran out of time. Ok looks like we need to go to a marketplace and buy the rest of the content”. No, what they say is "well, we are sorry guys and gals. We really hate to do this but guess what, we are running out of time (for whatever reason), so for the next 5 months we own you. You will not get days off unless you are ill and each day out of your 7 day work week is 12 hours long. We will provide you with lunch and supper to try and help keep your energy tanks full. Good Luck!

**So the real question should be, “Where and what kind of content within a marketplace can play a valuable role?”. **
A Few Examples:

Mass Produced Meshes (environments, props, characters, etc.)

  • Indie Games (not focusing on unique art, but perhaps showing off technical feats for flagship reasons)
  • Television Demonstrations (Such as the History Channel)
  • Extras in Commercials or Demos

Mass Produced Textures, Photography, Materials, etc.

  • Can be used anywhere (Not limited to a market)

Mass Produced Animation, Animation Data, Sequence Data, etc.

  • Science outlets (simulation purposes)
  • Television
  • Indie Games

Mass Produced Visual FX, Sound FX, etc.

  • Depends on the types of FX, SFX, etc.
  • Generic effects such as fire are not really limited to a market
  • Unique effects such as magic spells are exiled (Due to their uniqueness requirements)

Side Note - One of the great things about a Marketplace is the potential to learn from the downloaded content. (Then using your new found knowledge, applying those techniques to achieve your required results within your set guidelines)

Saying all of this, I have to personally agree with James (TheJamsh) when it comes to the lack of specific content being considered by Triple A (AAA) studios for purchasing. I have never been at a studio that buys from a marketplace because they ran out of time. The reality is, you “never run out of time”. Because you go into crunch or worse Company Death March, and YOU WILL WORK until your eyes bleed. It’s harsh, but that is one of the unfortunate sides to working within the AAA industry.

-Jeremy-

Nope. You run out of cash, and then you ship before you’re ready.
That happens for indies too, though – and even for industries outside game development.

The point I was making was in regards to the term “not enough time”. When this occurs, your personal time becomes the companies time via crunch or death march. So it’s not that you run out of time, but rather time you would have spent with family, friends, doing other activities, etc. is no longer yours to use. I understand that it is physically possible to run out of time for some reason (whether it be lack of funding, illness, etc.). Perhaps I didn’t state the point I was trying to make well enough (or use the proper words) :frowning:

-Jeremy-

I would just like to add my two cents, Even the tittle of this thread offends me. The whole idea of having a seperate Market Place area was for a reason, for people to showcase their work for purchase.

Why have people decided it’s acceptable to use this area for a thread that SHOULD be located in general discussion forums, Obvious answer to this thread is if you don’t want market place content don’t buy it. Simple

Also i would like to make a distinction between Generic and Specific content design. I aggree with Mr Baldwin from Eat3D, If an AAA is looking for character design or very specific genre related assets that’s something that will always be either done internally or out sourced on a contract basis. The odds of AAA buying generic assets like that which are fundamental to the whole ethos of any project would be counter productive.

But i would also say that not everything comes under that bracket, Ive been working on some terrain packs for the community with start to finish video tutorials of the whole process from conception to in scene. How to edit the generic assets provided within the pack by mixing maps for the end user to get something completly different and unique. I personally would not appreciate being tarred with the brush, All bought assets are useless for unique results. It’s all about how you use those assets to generate value added results for small outlays of finance. I provide all source map art assets, Provide Blender 3D scene files for hand sculpting and procedural texturing, Blender 3D scene’s for Baking out your modified textures, Normal maps, Displace, AO, SSS, Lightmaps, And your New scene height map in 16bit format after sculpting and editing to fully match your now modified and unique terrain.

Every time ive been trying to get some focus on what im doing this Poxy thread keeps robbing me of views, So might as well use it to make my point.

Cheers J

Pack 1, Sandy Desert’s VOL 1:

http://www.badlamagames.com/Images/Desert Terrain pack1.jpg

PDF Download: Sandy Deserts VOL 1

Terrain Grassy/Rock Pack 1 (will be edited before final evaluation)

http://www.badlamagames.com/Images/TerrainGrassyrocks1new.jpg

PDF Dowload: Terrain Grassy/Rock VOL 1

http://www.badlamagames.com/Images/TerrainDesertrocks1.jpg

Preview PDF Download: Desert Rcoks Ver 1

Ocean Islands VOL 1:

http://www.badlamagames.com/Images/OceanIslands1.jpg

Preview PDF download: Ocean Islands VOL 1

http://s8.postimg.org/xph51269d/Bad_Lama_Badgesmall.png

Well said Jeremy, James & Mr. Bad Lama!! :wink:

Couldn’t agree more, being able to customize and learn from these assets, rapid prototype, and modify these assets IS the point of the marketplace. For me, it’s all about learning the best techniques, which is why Jeremy’s Star FX, and King’s landscapes are so appealing to me, as it usually costs hundreds of dollars to learn from the best.

I wouldn’t use the assets aside from minor props in an actual game (rocks, random small objects), everything else I would either modify, or build myself. :slight_smile:

Sorry if i have upset some people here,but my point still stands.
If i bought terrain assets,and any other assets.
So did 10 other people our games would look the same.
People do anything to make money.
I am off to read me newspaper in the bog.

Things like this is why games will never have any originality.

If a game’s originality depends on it using a completely custom brick texture or a unique road sign…

Your entitled to your opinion markb :slight_smile:

If I may point out your statement - “Things like this is why games will never have any originality.

Marketplaces for content have been around for over a decade (maybe longer). And in the last decade, we have made original games, movies, commercials, etc. To say these marketplaces prevents us from accomplishing originality isn’t accurate, and history proves it.
If you are angry at the idea of a marketplace, simply disregard it. There is no rule or law that says all users of the unreal engine must adhere, use, and accept the marketplace.
But for people like me (and many others), it is an outlet of knowledge and resources. It is an easy window to give back to the community for a small fee or for absolutely free.

Perhaps if I give you a personal example of how the marketplace can also be beneficial (outside the realm of gaming), you might see it (and its users) in a different light:
I have many external (not related to development) activities and priorities that require time. However, I need money to survive. To make money, I need to work. I then get paid based upon the hours I dedicate toward that work. This makes completing other tasks difficult (as there is only so many hours in the day). To have a marketplace is a saving grace. I can spend a week to a month creating something that has the potential to create revenue past the allotted time I put into it. This means I have the potential to make a few extra dollars to help me survive yet free up time to accomplish some of the other tasks and priorities at hand. Marketplaces have many good applications.

-Jeremy-

Well i explained that with my asset packs you have 125 different terrains, I give you the means to mix those terrains in anyway you like. You can change all the textures, you have the original image editor files, You can sculpt and add multiple height info from separate maps into your new 1. It’s all about how much effort the end users wants to put into creating something unique. So no, if you buy my asset packs you wont end up with something that looks the same as every one else. BUT i am selling an asset pack, so i need to provide versions that for any reason the end user wants to just utilise what is already there they can (that was also a pre requisite from Epic).

You go read you paper in the *******, and dream of games made by unicorns surfing on rainbows. Dinlo!

I think you are definitely looking at the marketplace in the wrong way. Try to keep an open mind.

The market place is going to have assets that may not be valuable to you, but they may be valuable to someone else.

they are peoples who want to sell assets … and people who to buy them … this is enought for the market place to exist :wink:

That’s exactly what I was talking about.