Discussion: People stealing content. It's gone too far, what can we do about it?

Community Community & Industry Discussion
1

Hi guys,

I want to bring your attention to a very important subject: Everyday, more and more people are using copyrighted content, ripped 3d models, music, and art in general, and creating “trailers” of games that will never, ever happen. The most recent one I saw was this thing called “Shadow Moses”, according to its developer, it’s a Metal Gear Solid remake.

Why do I want to discuss that? It’s simple. As someone who is working his *** off to create a new, original game, it kills me inside when I see a social media page (let’s use facebook on this example) with more than 10k followers because they are using a famous name, a name of a famous game that does not belong to them, to attract people, thus getting a lot more exposition than original content creators, like myself. Also, I’m looking at you, game news websites that help this people.

Here’s my point: this developers are openly stealing to promote themselves. To me, this demonstrates an extreme lack of moral and work ethic, and an absurd disrespect to the copyright holders (konami in this case), and to other developers.

It’s no different than doing this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2739873/war%20of%20stars.jpg

I know EPIC can’t do much to prevent people from doing this kind of thing, but isn’t there something we can do, as a community, to try and educate the public about this?

Tell me what you think, and if you agree/disagree with anything I said.

2

There’s not really anything to be done, those marketplaces shouldn’t be allowing content that’s clearly copyrighted and people will also have to keep their eye out for stuff related to their own projects.

3

Your topic brought to mind the soda industry and how it illustrates that there is absolutely nothing you can do to prevent people from making cheap knockoffs of your game or anyone else’s:
http://www.knockingoff.com/72-dr-pepper-clones/

Welcome to capitalism.

Notice that Dr. Pepper is the clear winner in that war, and they are on top because of execution, and at this point entrenched tastes, despite all the fake contenders they have to deal with.

I am just going to assume here that War of Stars is complete garbage and not worth playing. If people actually pay money for it then it is their own fault when they realize they wasted their money on trash. The developers that properly execute on their game are usually successful despite the headwinds, and as they continue to execute they gain a reputation of excellence. If Bethesda, Blizzard, Valve, or a handful of other companies release a game I know I can throw my money at them and walk away at least content in having experience a decent product.

If you want to compete for the casual market who does not have a sense of brand loyalty at this point, I guess I would say good luck. Even if they play your polished game and enjoy it, whose to say they don’t just follow their whims from one garbage game to another not giving a **** about what you created?

The real problem is how do you get noticed above all the noise and gain those initial sales? Even without the clones you have a ridiculous amount of games being released every day. There was a video game “crash” in the 80’s that saw a lot of game and console makers go out of business, and part of me wonders if we are headed for the same bust. But people don’t have the same limitations coming to market like they used to, which is good and bad.

I think all you can do is out market them. Attack your potential audience from all angles; social, crowdfund, advertising, forums, etc, etc.

5

Once, a master was a apprentice that simply copied his masters work in order to learn the required skills. Once mastering the art of copy, they should move on to become their own master. At least, I like to think of it like that.

Some people rather have quick money than actually build something for themselves and be really proud of your own progress and achievements. What is it worth if it’s all empty?

6

I would say most of the copycat developers out there are just a wallet looking for more money. They aren’t making art. They are hiring people and that is the extent of their involvement. The devs they hire have kids to feed and rent to pay and whatnot.

7

Hi,

I’m the one who is creating “Shadow Moses”.

First of all, let me tell you that I’ve been in contact with Konami since the begining. In fact, You can check Konami’s official account on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/Konami/following

They are following my project and retweeting some of our tweets. We are also having chats with Carol Lee (From konami) every 2 weeks to keep them informed. So just one tip, be informed before saying that we are not respecting the company.

Second, this is just a fan remake which I’m creating in my free time with some partners and WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET ANY PROFIT FROM IT. It’s just a tribute to our favourite saga. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sorry if this work bothers you. We are not trying to bother anyone. Just making it for fun and love to the saga, so I don’t understand why it “kills you inside”.

Kind regards and best wishes.

Airam

8

Hi Airam,

I understand your love for the series, and I’m a fan as well. My point is that you are using this for self promotion, and using the game’s name for “free” to get attention from the general public. This is bad, and I find it extremely disrespectful to your fellow developers that are trying to create their own thing. Going from “I like this game so I’ll use it’s assets/ideas to study and get better as a developer” to “I’m going to full market this as my own creation, even sticking my photo and information on the game’s facebook page” is the main problem I see.

You do not have to agree with me, and I do not expect to change your view on the matter, but I feel the need to let you know my thoughts on this.

Best,
Bruno

9

There’s nothing wrong if Konami themselves doesn’t care.
It’s not your IP to care so much, IP owners have lawyers and can stop illegal use of their IP at any time if they wish so.

10

This is not about what’s “mine”, nor exclusively about this project. There are many others like it.

This is about what’s ethic and what’s not.

11

Did I miss something? Isn’t this going on all the time? I actually believe that: “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.” Within copyright guidelines of course.
“This is bad, and I find it extremely disrespectful. . .”
You think it’s bad. I don’t. I think it’s kinda cool.
You find it disrespectful. I don’t. Just from looking at the video of “Shadow Moses” It looks pretty respectful of the original to me.
Anyway, we are just talking about opinions, right?
“. . ., Good day, sir!”
I like the original “Willy Wonka” film better than the Burton version.

Well. I don’t think I’ve edited a post so many times. I want to say that I hope I’m not coming off as a jerk. I respect your thoughts, Brunogruber.

12

Had to check out that Shadow Moses. What exactly are they stealing other than the MGS name? There are a bunch of fangames and remakes out there, and the fans usually welcome those with open arms. But did the devs steal actual content, like models and such for their project? They looked pretty original to me.

13

Brunogruber, I think given Airam’s statement and his direct contact with Konami leaves him out of your original statement.

Quoting Konami’s Twitter:

That isn’t an example of something bad, but something we need more of.

I don’t know what your problem is, but maybe you should consider directing your ire at someone who deserves it.

14

I agree with the others here. It’s awesome when people create something like “Shadow Moses” with the support from the original developer! There is nothing “bad” and “disrespectful” about this.

You (brunogrube) seem to have a problem with the fact that people who work for free without the intention to make any profit can easily get a lot more attention because they can reuse assets, names etc because it’s just free advertising for the owner of the original content. Same like a mod for an existing game can easily get a lot more popular than a completely new game. But there’s no problem with this, everyone just profits from that.

15

TIL: Well executed fan art is a bad thing and disrespectful to creators of original content.
Thanks internet :smiley:

16

I’d be much more worried about the flood of unethical business practices that have proliferated games since the induction of ‘free to play’ rather than re-using assets (with or without permission). While using someone else’s IP or assets can produce a good product, the damage being done to consumer trust via unethical practices is only going to harm everyone across the board. Just food for thought.

Also really if you get permission to use IP that doesn’t cheapen anyone’s experience nor is there anything wrong with it at any level at all. Even if you PAY for that IP (via cash or rev share or whatever) it’s still ok. Making games can be frustrating though, especially if you can’t comprehend why one product does well and another similar product fails… sometimes there simply may not be a reason that is discernible.

17

Yeah, you gotta chill out. If there’s an easier way for people to get what they want, there’s always going to be a lot (probably the majority) of people doing it that way. Most people live their lives and make their living doing things that have been done before. If people are actually stealing things and making money off it then yeah, they should be sued/arrested, but saying fan projects are disrespectful and unethical is just untrue most of the time.

If you are turning on your brain and trying to get out of the rat race, that’s awesome, but it’s going to be hard and you can’t expect everyone to applaud you for it. Just learn to live off of the satisfaction of earning everything for yourself, rather than piggy-backing off someone else’s hard work. The followers that you do get will probably be extra loyal and supportive because of it.

Honestly, if you like originality, you should be really happy right now. Look at how big the indie game market is! The best way to make people respect original work (rather than just Star Wars 7 :P) is to make a really good original product.

18

I’ll chime in here a little bit with my view, as I think I have something to say about a few of the things you’ve mentioned. Perhaps that’s because not only have I worked as a freelance journalist for quite some time now, but I’ve also dabbled with developing mods in the past (which, is what truly got me interested in game development).

First, I don’t think that mods, fan games or remakes deserve less respect in any shape or form. The people creating them often have incredible passion. They’re expanding upon a franchise that the original developer has potentially set aside and doesn’t plan to actively revive any time soon. They’re still developers – within their own right. It takes a lot of drive to even attempt to create a project of that kind, with no potential monetary incentive on the table. And, quite honestly, if the original developer doesn’t mind…well, then, I don’t see an issue here at all.

However, I’ll say, if they’re using original assets or material, then that is a slightly different issue and I can only think of the legal ramifications they could be facing in those circumstances, even. The same could be said for outright clones, or clear copycats, like the “War of Stars” example you’ve presented above. In that case, it would be up for the original rights holder to consider taking legal action (and I’m sure there’s some case to be made for that). Though, it is rather likely that those titles are rather lacking in quality, and only receiving downloads based upon the similarly in name. I don’t suppose they’ll truly make any money from them, and the user will likely remove the game from their system rather quickly anyhow.

I don’t think any of this diminishes the amount of effort it takes to create a unique, original intellectual property. I think that comes with even more struggles and challenges to face. That doesn’t negate anything I’ve said above, though. I’ve met a large amount of developers who work at respected studios who come from a background of developing modifications and fan-based games. The disciplines are, for the most part, the same. The skills are interchangeable.

You don’t really need to worry – as much as you might seem to be, at least – about people copying your game. If the product is good enough it will stand on its own feet. If it isn’t, then people wouldn’t want to copy it. Just take a look at the best-selling titles in the industry. Most share a lot in common. There’s a reason shooters sell, for example. It’s typically the story and a number of core functions that are unique.

Now, on to the journalism front and the “I’m looking at you, game news websites that help this people” statement. I’ve written for both web and print. Quite honestly, for the most part, we’re relatively unbiased (aside from opinion pieces, reviews and the like). That isn’t to say every outlet is and I’ve worked for some truly horrible publications in the past that are happy to deliver coverage for a “small fee”. We’re here to cover news; anything news-worthy or that we feel will be of interest to our readership. If there’s a “remake” or “fan game” that we’re happy to see being developed, then we’re probably going to cover that as well. More often than not, because we’re also fans of the same franchise as the person creating it. If you have a decent game (or product) and a decent public relations team…then, it really isn’t hard to receive coverage. Indie-specific sites help in this regard quite a bit, as well.

Continue focusing on your project. Make it solid. If it’s fun to play, then people will buy it. Don’t worry about what people are doing in their free time.

19

Copywrite gives the holders the ability to begin legal action against anyone they feel violates it. It is up to the holder to decide how to enforce it. It looks like Konami have made it clear that they will not challenge Shadow Moses, and will even endorse it, therefore all is well.

Don’t let this put you off developing your own IP. If you’re that concerned, you can take a zero-tolerance policy and have a blanket ban on remakes, fan-made spin-offs and the like. As long as you can prove you have not authorised others to use your copywrited material, the law will be on your side. If you can prove that the unauthorised usage has resulted in financial loss, you can sue for damages.

20

You have to realise too those remakes and fangames are often made because the original developer will not bother making such game in the first place.

21

Hey, nice to see your opinions guys. I’m sorry if at any moment I sounded rude or anything like that, this is a really sensitive subject for me, and I am probably overreacting. Maybe I should’ve kept my opinions on the subject to myself.

I just want to clarify: I do not mind people making fan games, mods, fan art, or anything like that. My only issue is using this as a platform to promote yourself based only on that. In this case, as I said earlier, the guy has sticked a picture of him and a small biography on the game’s facebook page (more than 10k likes last time I checked, because metal gear). I cannot be the only one that sees what’s wrong with that. This discussion was not intended to be about this single project, but about all the devs that are doing this kind of thing.

Also, to clarify: I am not worried of people copying my game, or any of my projects. This is entirely unrelated with any production of mine, and I’m sorry if at any moment it sounded like it was about any of my projects.