Chaos Vs Apex destruction


Is anyone here who has fiddled with chaos destruction? In what way is it better than apex? I need apex for my current project but I want to upgrade to 4.26 soon (when it comes out). I find Apex very easy to set up and use it to destroy meshes when the health drops to 0. Is setting up chaos simple as apex? what about performance? I just find very little info on what chaos is and what it is supposed to enhance. If someone knows good resources regarding chaos, please let me know. I just wanna know what it is (i know its the new physics engine but why did it replace PhysX?)


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following this cause I also need to know


From a previous conversation, I was explained by Epic people that non is guaranteed for UE5.

Wich means, APEX will be removed from Unreal (wont stay as a legacy) and Chaos is not guaranteed in UE5, or another system could be implemented, so if you plan to update your project from UE4.26 to UE5… you canot work on projects that require destruction for now, BUT… if you plan to keep working in UE4.26 and wont update:

Apex is the best option, and the easiest to work with, however, over time it causes FPS drops.
Chaos has too many bugs, it constantly crashes, FPS is bad and it is not game ready.

I´m also crazy for UE5 to arrive… but not even the preview was released yet.

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A source on where it was said that chaos wasn’t a permanent thing?

I agree it performs like ■■■■ currently, but they also invested heavily into paying people to create it.
Now for over a year (that’s around $150k per person working on it, it’s not exactly a small investment).

I seriously doubt they would scrap that yet again until they have very well milked it.

Let’s answer the OP questions or at least try…

Currently? None what so ever.
Worse performance overall.

For some things it’s actually easier. The destruction being one of them.
However, I find implementing your own destruction to be a better overall choice.
Fracturing stuff in engine is nice and all, but if you want AAA quality you need to work magic on the meshes.

Again, so far it’s overall worse.
We are talking same scene going from 120fps down to 20fps after swapping from .25 to .26.
Certain things exacerbate this, like skeletal mesh/ragdoll simulation.
Also amount of simulated objects really deteriors performance, where it didn’t before.

Like aways, the ue4 team doesn’t share why this is happening or when it will be fixed.
So far .26 has brought almost all projects to a grading halt - or to stick with .25…

Well, that’s because it isn’t supposed to enhance anything at all.
It was supposed to be at parity with apex and just nvidia but it’s not.
And it won’t be for a long while I don’t think.

Basically, it’s UE4 pulling away from nvidia all together because nvidia probably wants money that epic doesn’t want to pay - or licensing that epic doesn’t want to tack on.
It’s not necessarily a negative thing.

Aside from boneheaded stuff like the forum update, the shutting down of the wiki, the expiring license on the answerhub and the constant creation of stuff no user actually requested instead of picking up things off the feedback thread.
On top of not communicating about bugs and the bug report form not having functioned for at least 3 months. They actually think they care about their user base… :stuck_out_tongue:

^ This ^… The gushy message at the end of the recent year in review was kind of a WTF moment?! It showed that Epic execs all live in a bubble / reality distortion field. Five billion from Fortnite alone last year can do that to a person (and corporations are people too! :roll_eyes:)

I think this is the start of long slow decay for Epic tbh. If so, no one should be surprised really. Lots of tech firms stop innovating after a while and just become debt laden zombies that rent-seek their way to profit. :stuck_out_tongue: Like how HP / IBM / Oracle / Microsoft have become. :wink:

I don’t think so, I defend Epic on this issue, however, this is off-topic LOL

I think you have to focus on the pros:

EPIC STORE: Epic is a huge company trying to make people to buy games on their brand new store, which In a very short time, has accumulated about 30 - 50 million active players, their store is not filled with so many tools as Steam/Valve, but Steam has been in the market for 15 years, they top 120 million active players, but they are a monopoly… their store is crowded not only with games, but apps, music, software, it is like a trash market right now, and indie developers have cero to no chances of making money in there after years of working their games, once you release a game, sales drop drastically after 1 month, curators are the scummiest people you can find and even threat developers with bad reviews, review bombing cause sales to go flat line and developers are charged with a 30%+5% royalty, the only way to get noticed is if you have a massive budget or heavy marketing skills, and even If you do, their logarithm is always fighting against you, believe me, I have experience.

On the other hand the Epic Store is brand new, it is the “IT” thing, it´s becoming popular, but that is also happening because Epic is investing to promote the store and every new game, either AAA or Indie, they do not discriminate like Steam does in terms of promotion, Epic is not crowded but even if they were, every new game is displayed on top or becomes free for some days, people is able to find you very easy, there is no negative reviews, everything feels positive, they do promote you in a very nice way, because they know that every game counts, sadly I don’t think they are accepting too many games at the time, and that’s why developers prefer Steam, as long as you have an Ok game, you are In, while Epic feels like… you already know that you are going to be rejected if your game is not AAA or an already popular Indie, which is really sad, but at least they only take 12% versus Steam 30%+5%, If you ask me, I´ll rather sell my games on Epic than Steam, like 100%, I love Epic, even if their store is not as developed, at least I feel that If I have the chance to sell in their store, my game will be seen, while Steam is prioritizing AAA games only on their frontpage, Steam prefers 5 year old AAA´s than your new cool Indie game, and if you are an Indie developer, they don’t care about you, but I believe that´s why Epic is actually going to be the king in less than 5 years, if they play smart.

UNREAL ENGINE: I feel like I respect every decision made in the past, like, if tomorrow they decide to remove both Chaos and Apex, I know that they are doing it because they found a better solution, and why? because Fortnite uses Unreal, they have to improve the engine, there is not any question about that, and if you are not a C++ guy, guess what… AAA companies are now hiring Blueprint experts, cool, and UE4 became free in 2014, so nobody has that many experience, making you feel like a noob, this is a great time for UE4 developers, trust me.

MARKET PLACE: As a designer you have the chance to sell your products, however I think the biggest benefit is for indie developers, If you work alone, having so many assets available, is fantastic, they might not be perfect, not game ready (most of the time) but you don’t have to pay thousands of dollars and most importantly, you don’t have to loose time making some assets, that might only be a decoration in your game, as a AAA company, it is also good, you can produce a 7 year game in 3 years or less and belive me, they do use the Market place and Quixel, there is free products every month, and high quality assets at decent prices.

FORUMS: If you have used Autodesk Maya, you know their forums are dead and buried, you ask a question and you might get 1 answer in 5 years; in here I feel like we can actually have a conversation, you get replies every day… I love it.

So, overall I think Epic games is like a baby already running and jumping, I feel like they do not have enough personal for the grow rate they have, but you just have to wait to see it grow in a good way, the real strength of Epic, is in the indie community which is already tired of Steam. and for that reason I celebrate Epic, I have seen a great deal of progress in the engine, I just wish that the Epic Store becomes as equal accessible for selling your Indie game, as the engine already is for Indie development in the near future.

AND, if you need destruction, just be patient like me.

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Lucky for me I have no plans to port to 4.26 or UE5 any time soon so yay. I’ll probably join 4.26 in 2 years or so after they’ve sorted out the kinks, especially in the water system. And will see about using UE5 in 5 years. It’s bound ot be bug-ridden upon release and even a year afterwards

It’s not like .25 is any better.

Also, in 2 years I will probably have my own custom ue4 engine features developed at this rate.

You can make a better version of the water thing in a week or so if you go through about a month of fiddling to learn how to do it via trial/error.
I have put out several posts on how several times.
With single layer water shading model you also have a lit less to worry about.

What they added to the engine doesn’t really add anything of value - sculpt your landscape instead of having the body of water ■■■■ it up for you. You need to anyway if your player is allowed underwater.

The river thing?
I had that running in .19 and there’s even flow map samples on the free water thing that’s been on marketplace well before that (you’d never know because it’s 1 instance in a scene of 10 items, but its great to learn flow maps from).

Carving the landscape via the spline has also been possible for ages - the river width tool and a few other things are nice additions, but definitely not something you need to go out of your way for (You can also code them to your spline actor).

The parts that the engine sucks at currently are.
Performance all around - physics, graphics, and even instancing.
The parts .25 sucks at compared to those are 0 - it’s not great, but at least it’s manageable.

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I’ve been swamped with so much modelling and landscaping work that getting into remaking stuff through trial and error is just not feasible right now. So I’ll just wait for it in 4.26 while the UIWS asset works splendidly as the base to build the water system upon in 4.25

Can you post links to those posts where you posted about how to make water shaders?

I’ll see if I can find them, but its mostly me notching about bugs, no one answering, and me finding/ sharing the answer.

In the end, if I had broken down the community ocean project development would have gone faster

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I’ve been breaking apart several vehicle damage projects and looking for ways to implement them in the advanced vehicle system. If that works out, it’d be nice, almost GTA-like

■■■■ that’s beautiful. Couldn’t ahve said it better myself. I’d take Unreal over any other game engine any day, even if they offered me that fancy pro license Unity. Fkk unity

Already done that. You can check it out here Body Harvest Remastered - Vehicle Destruction System Preview Video |Titan Games - YouTube

Doesn’t work very well with AVS cause AVS got bugs with skeletal meshes. But the destruction part works super sweet.

EDIT: Wait up I just replied to myself… akward