I’m not going to name any specific products or names and cause myself any headaches. I have no issue with the seller, but I’ll explain the situation and vent my frustration.
I purchased a code plug-in from Marketplace about ten minutes ago, and within 30 seconds of purchasing it I have (once again) been let down by the critically low standards for assessing whether or not it was suitable for sale.
The implementation of the plug-in shows a clear lack of understanding of how to do the job properly, uses several non-UE4 types throughout the codebase (int instead of int32 etc), doesn’t follow the UE4 programming conventions and guidelines, and has implemented a very crude method for emulating a system that already exists in the engine which is horrendously unoptimized and adds needless overhead. What’s worse, is that the title of the plug-in is misleading enough that I didn’t expect any of this.
I haven’t gone through the refund process before - but when submitting a case for a refund I had to check a box to say that I’d contacted the seller. I checked it and submitted the request anyway - but I shouldn’t have to reach out to the seller to tell them they did a terrible job and that I could have done it better. I was hoping the product would save me time, but if anything it’s now COSTING me time by going through the clunky refund process.
I take no issue with the seller - but I do take issue with the fact that this product is on Marketplace and was seemingly approved without any real review whatsoever. I understand that from a business point of view, it doesn’t make sense to employ an unreal-fluent programmer to code-review Marketplace items - but I should at least be able to refund a product for sub-par implementation without having to go through the seller.
Edit: I also understand that making it easier to refund items, also makes it easier for developers to pirate content - but I’m afraid that’s the crux of a digital marketplace and is the vendors problem to deal with, not the buyers.
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This isn’t the first time I’ve bought a code plug-in on Marketplace, or a Blueprint ‘system’ that completely circumvents an existing engine implementation of something and replaces it with a god-awful one, or has been made by someone who either doesn’t know better or couldn’t be arsed to implement it properly. I don’t know a solution to this “problem”, other than to just stop myself from buying “code things” from Marketplace altogether…
NB: It was also my understanding that policy dictates that you need to at least follow the Unreal Engine programming conventions for code plug-ins. If not - it reeeeeally should be.
I too am unhappy with most of my Marketplace purchses, there are a couple of exeptions…
I have attempted to go through the refund process, after contacting the vendor, but after 4 weeks not a peep from the marketplace team. not even confirmation of receipt.
Request has been resubmitted.
I have also emailed the marketplace team.
Most unsatisfactory, I will advise when I eventually get a response from the MP team.
I really don’t know how much Epic enforces the programming conventions, but i remember taking like 3 days fully checking my code for compliance with the guidelines, but i have no clue if that’s what everyone is doing (or if they are being rejected for not doing so)
About the “UE4” types (like int32), AFAIR there’s no guideline enforcing that, and even more… int32 is a typedef to int, so it shouldn’t have a problem, even in multiple architectures. (But if someone could correct me if i’m wrong, i would appreciate it there, so i can also correct them on my own projects)
https://answers.unrealengine.com/que…nknown-ty.html … seems to have the answer, although it’s an old answer
“Use of C++'s int and unsigned int types - whose size may vary across platforms - is acceptable in code where the integer width is unimportant. Explicitly-sized types must still be used in serialized or replicated formats.”
so there’s room for choice, although it must be better to just use int32 if that’s the case
I remember even seeing threads about using std::, so it seems that’s not a limitation.
I think that you could ask for a refund given a timespan (like steam), but the issue there is that UE4 gives you the full sources for the plugins, so there’s nothing protecting the seller for people buying the plugins, copy pasting them, asking for a refund, and then install them as a “project plugin”… so i see why there’s this extra layer of communication needed.
This is weird.
When I submitted UFSM State-Machine plugin, they had two veteran engine programmers review the code and when Sony’s studio got in contact they requested another battery of code reviews with all the changes they wanted at hand…
If Marketplace doesn’t code review anymore then this is a major step back towards quality of services.
Not to gatekeep or anything but if this is is the first time you’re reading about that then your products need another review. “Hey just use int32 everywhere” is the very antithesis of good programming.
And I’m not stoked that you’re discussing how to pirate UE marketplace plugins further down.
I think you misunderstood my post there my friend. (although I’m not the best English speaker neither)
i wasnt implying the use of int32 everywhere, but the very same code good practices say to use them where the length is important due to compilers. But I see how I failed to comunícate that issue.
about the other point, I’m just going to ignore it as I think that you just understood something wildly different to what I wrote. If you think that I promote piracy then please re read my statement, because that wasn’t my intention
thanks for the gate keeping though, appreciate it even if it’s for learning purposes
Still not OK. We discuss ways to prevent piracy here, not how to enact it or casual endorsement of it. As software developers we cannot be seen to be condoning the piracy of other people’s livelihoods. We want that culture to go away, not reinforce it with neutral statements explaining how to pirate things.
that’s what my first post was about, because the extra layer of communication doubles as a protection for possible pirates… so removing it would be dsngerous for the reasons stated above
that’s was the intention of my post. Please, read it thoroughly because I really don’t understand how it was not clear. I’m totally in the same boat as you here man.
This is the Epic marketplace forums. The public ones. Don’t endorse or facilitate piracy, even if it’s obvious how to. The only real defence we have against piracy is that we’re seen to disapprove of it. I’m pretty sure it’s a forum rule not to write things like that in fact.
So are we in the point where we should close our eyes and ignore issues that can be destructive to ourselves because some Jack hackerman can come and read my post?
this is the forums where we discuss this issues, see the pros and cons and further help the discussion by showcasing every possible point.
if you think that by keeping quiet and not discussing this issues we are “fighting piracy” then I think you are wrong.
i will stop posting because we are drifting from the OP’s main issue here.
The whole point of asking whether you contacted a seller is to establish whether you brought the issue to their attention, and if they tried to resolve it. That is assuming it is a legitimate issue that falls under the refund policy. It’s important to facilitate communication between buyers and sellers. If there is a legitimate issue with a product of mine, I’d like to know about it so that I can attempt to fix it - per the refund policy. If you bypass that it does a disservice to the seller by not giving them a chance to fix an issue if there happens to be one, as well as fellow consumers who might have benefited from a possible fix were it to be an issue with a product overall.
I know there tends to be this assumption that some sellers are out to screw people over, but the vast majority of us are not. We are simply trying to provide quality services to fellow developers and earn a living. Many of us are customers as well, and I know I personally treat every one of my customers exactly how I’d like to be treated. When dealing with software, nothing will ever be 100% perfect. All you have to do is take a look at UE4’s engine releases or pick a game that was released from AAA developers. Just like they are given a chance to fix the bugs/issues, sellers should be afforded the same courtesy.
I didn’t say that at all, you’re twisting what I said while misrepresenting what you yourself said. As I stated: we discuss how to combat it, not the specifics of how to commit it. And as you’ve already been told, we’re in the public section of the forum, not the marketplace creators hub. I don’t even see how you got on to the subject.
I think stopping this line of the discussion is an excellent idea, that was my suggestion in the first place. Glad we can agree.
@TheJamsh reach out to us and let us know the situation (it’s the weekend, so I know you may have already done so at this point). We have tried to strike the balance between review speed and scrutiny from the Epic team. Based on your description, it’s not something we want on the marketplace, so we’ll investigate both the individual pack as well as how it passed our review. We ask that buyers try interacting with sellers first because that usually leads to the best outcome.
I’m extremely surprised to hear the report about the lack of response from the MP team. The only reason I can think of is that your messages have been lost, so we’ll investigate on Monday. I’m sorry for the delay, we’ve worked hard to solve our response times.
I’m absolutely happy to hear the various feedback that our marketplace community has, but when the conversation turns to how to abuse the system, that’s not something for a public forum.We have the Creator’s Hub to discuss the challenges facing the Seller Community, including concerns about refunds.