Any here ever heard of NLP?

If you have trouble writing or with goals,etc it helps. - YouTube. IS a science and not BS. Eye accessing and terminology and purpose(http://www.llewellyn.com/encyclopedia/term/Eye+Accessing+Cues), how to tell when someone lies.

This is a true field.

Neuro-linguistic programming - Wikipedia Just noticed on 10/23/2015 that Dave Snowden has a bent on NLP (furthure docs shows) helped me find this with our debate. Thanks

Take your pick on many reports. https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEV78bZhhWpXEA8eIPxQt.;_ylc=X1MDMjExNDcwMDU1OQRfcgMyBGZyA3locy1hdmctZmhfbHNvbnN3BGdwcmlkA2tMV3hDTS4zU3VDMnpJWERQYXdXOEEEbl9yc2x0AzAEbl9zdWdnAzEEb3JpZ2luA3NlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzAEcHFzdHIDBHBxc3RybAMEcXN0cmwDMjAEcXVlcnkDZXllIGFjY2Vzc2luZyBsaWVpbmcEdF9zdG1wAzE0NDQ0NTA1NDU-?p=eye+accessing+lieing&fr2=sb-top-search&hspart=avg&hsimp=yhs-fh_lsonsw&param1=tZNLb9QwEMe_Cpf4lsh2_MrBhy5lAWmplrK0R-RXdheRB3Z22357xllKlyIhhECKNH9PZiYz83Pc3utCWu6pq7FgpROMlUwqUaqG8zKwWjElmDJ1KKRHXhPGKFEUS4UxRj7pi5vX6Ivptzr0qINqWCjTGumZE4RJ561ivCVKSNFY2xhfNq5xVslgsakbjDm2hkGGEMqbwCjllipjBUMjVLubDmiMuo3oqFlFKlXxpkEvDzGGflqbbfh4vdK7aRqL2hS0had7SMFEt6vMcVu5oQPXCHEJ7OOLNN4Xdes6-EBR-4KKr2BM7B4Kak0PDnu1WoM7GSjr-wlknhB06EF3c9o_mxMquu-NcLn4IxIQeAlpR0j6sRQ4-wQO4JElKHBxuiT1bCgmHAbLh_oCy9lwBZ71OwgfI8S3Mc_c59TdeBr_k3F5BTj3OLm5R5vD536BTY7Ke0EfQjyG-PZSbxa03FxtytvlK9yg69AGQBUfKaXfYZqMBSy_1P77_fwHUE935mzZzzmcX5anzea8TKHETXmCMiP5Gcf5nWuH2IF-v1i9yYXc6XsU7UcteUWkrAipCJdoSPp23_vhLr2QyOrlPoZ2uEcWfhlSYeSC3sRDQJ_TSXwD0&param2=new_tab_search&param3=ff.41.w7.nt.04-01.us.avg._._&type=ff.41.w7.nt.04-01.us.avg._._

Robert Dilts 2nd Founder of NLP. Article of the Month Page

Basic Lie Techniques Eye - Yahoo Image Search Results

Why do I put this up? Make sure your NPC has proper eye patterns or not to help a decerning mind,lol.

This added on 10/23/2015 to help reader with misinformation. http://inlpcenter.org/nlp-wikipedia-page/ This is how I can see how you came to that conclusion . We all asume it must be true if it is on the web,lol. Took me a min to find this breach of contract on Snowdens editorial duties. Dont think he is related to Edward Snowden.
NLP Information and Research

To me, it’s in the same category as “intelligent design” - ******** pseudoscience. That’s my opinion.

@EvilCleric, please don’t circumvent the word filter.

thanks

Yeah, this has been disproven to be a load of complete nonsense. It’s a bunch of quack ‘doctors’ selling pseudo-science therapy.

Yes quak doctors have used it and many still do. To disprove this I would love to see some articles. It is easy to use generlisations and never specify like those quak`s do. It is easy to disbelieve something but to prove wrong is entirely different. NLP – The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

I wouldn’t consider a hypnosis website a particularly reliable source of information.

Try scientific journals. The Wikipedia article you provided has 20+ attached journal papers in the references for you to choose from, seemingly not a single one of which favourably supports NLP.

Those 20+ articles your refferring to, be more specific. If it is what I asume you to mean then are debates not disproven anything. Please clarrify. So far you just are giving your opion of a field of study that you want to debate on. Never assume that a person knows what you mean. The scientific journals you reffered to must have had an article some where that they disproven this,no? I am looking up them as well. I want to know instead of speculate.Only seen 2 your meaning in the wiki,(14,17). You will find everyone tring to discredit everything in some form or another. Mainly main stream psychology and afda. They all want to take a pill to fix things.

More info about that wikapidia page I posted The Truth About The NLP Wikipedia Page. Dont think that Dave Snowden is related to Edward but could be wrong.

http://www.researchandrecognition.org/#!about1/c1mf6

I’m a Master Practitioner in NLP and has been a professional hypnotherapist for years, so I’ve heard of it :smiley:

Yes it’s a true field and it works, it’s neither science nor pseudoscience because it was never ment to be a replacement of the official “normal science” and in fact thousands of licensed psychologists and psychotherapists use these technologies everyday with their clients.

It came out because Richard Bandler and John Grinder, the creators, wanted to find a way to improve therapists’ effectiveness, and I’m talking about regular college degree psychotherapists.

They found Milton Erickson and Virginia Satir, studied them, and created a model that could be applied by anyone.

The “initial version” of NLP was about modeling top performers so the rest could improve faster.

Overall, in my opinion, NLP is a form of what’s called “waking hypnosis”, which gives you results without the use of trance.

Actually there is no way to demonstrate how hypnotism works, there are a bunch of theories but as far as I know there isn’t a scientific explanation for the phenomenon yet.

The truth is that we professionals are the first ones on the line waiting for evidence of what’s this thing, until then I guess we’ll continue “quack doctoring” :smiley:

Yea I put that article up where the editor of wikipedia delibratly falsified the info. Good a another Nlper. Nice t meet u

umm, I don’t want to offend you but saying that doesn’t really mean anything here in the UK at least, considering there is no real governing body overseeing the certification process and there is no real set criteria for the certification either, plus if you cant prove the validity of NLP one way or the other any qualification in it is pretty much meaningless.

doesn’t it basically just boil down to manipulation, I mean it’s like the way conmen convince there marks to hand over there money.

yeah, that’s about as useful as a chocolate teapot, that one definitely doesn’t work on me;).

…according to someone trying to sell NLP.

Also references 14 through 19 and 102 through 111. A large number of supporting references all seem to come from the same authors (Bandler and Grinder), who are both set out to profit from selling NLP.

Like I said that guy is dilibratly distorting facts so. to continue to argue on twisted articles by Mr Snowden is a waste of time. And No offence . It is easy to talk about what other say and write and step into partisianship. Point was if their where others like myself. At least found one other. The inmature mind love to argue so I will not participate in arguing. To judge something without knowledge is not a good practice. Plus I put the post on same page of this proof about Wikipedias editor. Might want to go back there to read that before still afirming. I am sure you easily pursuaded and will still hold on to view,no? It was our debate that helped me find furthure info about this editor guy. Now it has turned into argument without proper info. You can have that. Fruitless debate is useless. I enjoy debates that lead to an outcome but when they are for the sake of just playing "devils advocate". I will stop debating. That what kids do. No offence if one truely want`s to learn then that is a whole different matter. That is one of the purposes of argument and debate.

none taken:)

yeah, that’s not what happened at all.

I hope that’s not directed at me as all I did was point out that any qualification in something that has not been proven or disproven doesn’t really mean anything/asked a basic question and said that the “how to tell if someone is lying based on eye movement” doesn’t work.

isn’t that exactly what you did to my last post?

again no offence intended but this just seems kind of passive aggressive to be honest.

No not at you. didnt read the other post I wrote in regard to that wiki. Many people have wrote that editor over the years. What specifically are you referring to about me “judging your last post”? Are you referring to in this section? I was referin all this to amdershee since he want to attack something from others statement taken outa context. I didnt want to pull it down cause others would view it as a form of twisting so I added notes to it. I meant by say no offence that I wasnt offended either. I expressed that very badly. I forget to add the qoutes to specify to whom I am addressing, my bad.

ah, I see, its just when I read this “And No offence . It is easy to talk about what other say and write and step into partisianship.” it seemed as if it might have been directed towards my last post, I guess we can chalk this one up to miscommunication:).

I did read your post, and the attached article, and I refuted it’s credibility; take it or leave it.

I refuted it’s credibility, because it happened to be written by the one of the people ( Bundrant) already mentioned in this thread who happens to personally profit from selling NLP. His claim seems to be that another individual (Dave Snowden) is deliberately sabotaging the Wikipedia article with as an ‘authorative editor who gets paid to post slanted information in favour corporate interests’. I’m not sure what his ‘corporate interests’ are, since Dave Snowden is an academic - he’s also only one of many people editing that page, as shown by the edit history.

Like I said. partisianship. You refuted it credibly? According to whom? Or what standard? Your grammar show not a single understanding of anything of NLP but to use others words to continue to attack or discredit. Which is your right as anyone to do in America. So continue to argue with others as it is in my rights to not argue with people who are ignorant of that field. I was posting this to find others, not to see who can be pompus or appear to know. It would be like me arguing with a automotive tech just for the sake of arguing cause I know very lil about it. Belief, understanding,education and linguistic have patterns and are all in the single individual and shared collectively with all over the world. It is ok that you dont know or understand it since alot dont. In time you will or may not. I will not convince you and care not to since your belief are that. You say cup is full,I say cup is empty. So be stuck on what you deem as right. It is ok.

I did not ‘refute it credibly’, I ‘refuted it’s credibility’; these two statements have profoundly different meanings.

My interest in subjects like these is purely academic; I have no stake nor emotional attachment to it, so to call my opinion ‘partisan’ isn’t fair as I’m not promoting any particular agenda. I am not however willing to accept the credibility of the sources you keep directing at me, as they are all written by people trying to sell me NLP, which leads me to consider them considerably biased. You don’t buy a car based on reviews written by the owner of Volvo - it’s the same principle.

I will however accept articles written by people whose attachment to the subject is academic, particularly ones that show strong evidence of good empirical methodology. Your supporting links have largely just offered anecdotal evidence, which quite frankly is not good enough. Many people will tell you that a tomato is a vegetable, they may even be the majority - but their opinions are merely opinions and this does not make them correct (tomatoes are in fact a fruit).

My favourite academic article is one I have already mentioned as it is a cited reference in the Wikipedia article, and it’s content is quite telling. It’s entitled “Thirty-Five Years of Research on Neuro-Linguistic Programming. State of the Art or Pseudoscientific Decoration?”. This is an interesting study, as it does not perform it’s own NLP study, but it is instead studying academic literature pertaining to the topic and, comparing the journal articles contained in the INLP database to the greater number contained in national databases.

You can read it here, but I will summarise it’s content below.
(http://www.tomaszwitkowski.pl/attachments/File/NLP.pdf)

After qualitative analysis of the 315 articles contained in the NLP database, only 63 of them were determined to be reliable after filtering for credibility. Of those 63, 33 of them contained relevant empirical studies, 14 were of little scientific relevance and the remaining 16 weren’t actually relevant to NLP at all (the author hypothesises that these articles were likely included by accident). Out of the 33 relevant papers, only 9 of them were actually supportive of NLP whereas 18 refuted it (6 had uncertain outcomes). Bear in mind that these are the references cited by the INLP database itself - 9 out of 315 were reliable, contained relevant information and actually supported NLP, this is less than 3% of their own referenced articles.

Qualitative analysis of the national database showed completely different results - to quote the study; “The numbers indicate unequivocally that the NLP concept has not been developed on solid empirical foundations”. If you care to read it, the author also explains why he believes these results to be the case - he notes a common absence of a lack of control group in the small number of supported studies, and more rigorous testing in those that do not.

Indeed, his final statement is pretty damning of some of your specific links:
“The NLP database is commonly invoked by NLP followers and indicated as evidence for the existence of solid empirical grounds of their preferred concept. It is most likely that most of them have never looked through the base. Otherwise they might have come to the conclusion that it provides evidence to the contrary – for the lack of any empirical underpinnings”

At last, a footnote, please don’t insinuate that I am an American; I am not.

LOL tomasz witkowski is a Skeptic anyway so he is doing his job. I was just going on you first statements apon what you posted
“Yeah, this has been disproven to be a load of complete nonsense. It’s a bunch of quack ‘doctors’ selling pseudo-science therapy.” You use the term “selling me” as I contacted you to buy NLP for a price. What an over generallisation you have for yourself. No one here was even trying to sell NLP. Not to be rude or offensive. How old are you? Any I am done here. You have got emotional and the one thing they talk about is to not argue like this. I accept you possition to have the last word even though it will always be only your belief. Conversation as I am concerd ends. Outa respect of "off-Topic Creator. This topic has gone out of this guideline.

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My apologies If I sold you something you didnt want to buy. To generalise selling with communication isn`t good either.

Musashi said in his Book of Five Rings.
If we look at the world we see arts for sale. Men use equipment to sell their own selves. As if with the nut and the flower, the nut has become less than the flower.

So close this with your last statements cause I am done. You believe what you want as I do. Thread closed for me.

No more responses from me.

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