Not really. They’re both products and looking to satisfy a target audience. If Fab takes the “Indie” vs “Enterprise” license, it will change the game completely. But that’s a big IF.
Come on man, don’t put words in my mouth. I would be the last person to say that since I have both games and assets published. I don’t underestimate anybody. Just saying, further modifying is unnecessary for Devs without compromising the Artist’s IP.
This comment reads as if you have fundamentally misunderstood what game development is about and how it works in the industry.
There is no “immutable single artist vision.” There is an “end product, which is the result of tons of collaborating contributors.”
Anything that gets in the way of collaboration and iteration, is bad, and results in worse games, delivered later.
Someone who believes they have the final say and their output should never be modified, is frequently called a “diva” and, in general, they don’t do well on big game production teams.
Trying to enforce the diva mentality on a store where whoever produces the asset doesn’t even know which game it will go into is entirely counter productive.
Agreed - if they don’t, there’s always the option of having two versions of our products for sale - each with their own license - I saw someone has already done this (although I couldn’t find the products when I looked yesterday).
Good. I have my own sets of kitbash, plugins, procedures and workflows already set up in my modelling software - I’m not prepared to loose that when working with meshes.
I think that you need to work out a couple of things though:
You’re shifting subjects. The humble “blue collard” employee vs a “diva” leader is a whole different theme and applies to all industries. I respect both ways, you can be condescending towards single dev/artists but you’ll find advantages and disadvantages for both paths. I personally enjoy the freedom that comes from being independent and not kissing 
24/7. Though I respect and understand the other “collaboration” way, which is the popular one and more stable financially (Companies love good behaved soldiers 
)
Anyway… back to the subject.
Dude, you’re judging without knowing. I understand you a proud “Team first” style worker but everyone is different. Name calling or bullying is unnecessary. Nobody is trying to enforce nothing. It’s just matter of IP protection, don’t get the subject mixed. The final say for me is what the customer wants, that is the voice that I listen (feedback), those are my bosses.
1 - We settled that concern. As long as we upload very low-poly meshes, they’ll be 3D printing garbage.
2 - Pirates have different motives. What you’re asking is impossible to know. As long as 3D files are open to export, they’ll continue to be exploited in a number of 3D selling websites and impersonate as the original artist. Hopefully FAB will solve that issue that’s been on for years.
3 - Again, theoretical question. Pirates are everywhere and they only want free stuff or spend the minimum. It’s one of reasons I often raise the price of my assets. If you can’t stop them, at least hurt them in the wallet.
4 - Yeah, we talked about that. Apple does a pretty good job with its Apps (sandboxing). People can use them but they can’t download its contents (3D files, source code, etc). The server solution is an alternative but still, not perfect. I think the guys in Epic can come up with a smart solution.
5 - I can only give you my opinion: I do think it is worth for them… because then they’ll pass as the original artist and upload it in every 3D asset marketplace in the Internet. Those Marketplaces have no way to check nor interest to know who the true creator is. They just want sales.
1 - Hurting your legit customers for: 2. “Impossible to know”
2 - I’ve been writing anti-hack/copy protection/licensing systems since last century - I’ve seen a lot of “revolutionary” new techniques be released only to be broken hours, days or weeks later, I spent years constantly updating my software, each time with new ways to thwart piracy - sometimes it would slow them down, but it never stopped. I finally decided that spending energy on a fruitless task was a waste. I’ve had endless problems with software licensing systems eg that need to phone home - it so much hassle for the real customers.
3 - That’s an assumption - maybe they are people who can’t afford to purchase assets just for learning purposes. mixture of all types seems the most likely…
4 - one word - jailbreak
5 - yeah you could be right, a character model asset does differ from software - I have heard people say they’ve seen their assets used in other peoples show cases for instance, still - raising the price for an “unknown” is again just hurting your real customers.
I have been reading a lot here on the forums and on Reddit. Believe it or not even on steam reviews pirating is promoted on some games. I don’t think I have seen any lawyers posting, hiring one would likely be expensive as hell. Who would you sue?
It takes 1 pirate to buy, upload a torrent to another country, then refund the product in the marketplace. To many it’s not about price it’s a mentality that “it should be free” or “they are making enough money already” or “i test first maybe buy later”. Game devs of popular games leaked numbers on reddit of up to 90% was pirated of some games. Pirates openly talk on Reddit confessing they pirate and why.
Is it worth to pirate as a customer? If it is their mentality and if they have a better experience downloading from pirates (or are just used to, not knowing the alternatives) then absolutely they will. Many (hobby dev) customers will also run away from properly priced products thinking they are too expensive, while for a seller it is usually most rewarding to have higher priced products sold to a small amount of customers. It depends on what you offer and how, but it is safe to assume you can both make more money and have more time for your customers if they are not hundreds of people who paid only a few dollars. Sell it for a high price to a few big companies and naturally the people mentioned earlier will run to their torrent site.
Especially on Reddit you see plenty of confessions and the most dumb reasons people think pirating is acceptable.
They just buy it, make a torrent, refund it. Some sellers posted their statistics on the forums saying “one week I was selling like crazy, then nothing for months, then I found my stuff on that pirate site and no one is taking it down.” Some pirate sites specifically exist to sell pirated plugins specifically for UE and they even offer paid subscription models to pirates. Imagine.
There is stupid and their is stupid beyond believe. I personally knew people who paid for a torrent service a decade ago believing that if they paid it was legal. If I facepalm hard enough I might forget about it. Everyone has their own fantasy idea they pretend to be true why they are allowed to pirate.
Borderlands texture swapper tool. Anything in memory is just there to grab. I personally love fcking around unpacking game files to mod them but not to steal them and not without permissions. It’s a modder thing. There is not a single way you can pack a file that it can’t be unpacked in time.
Yeah, you can tell when a pirate has purchased - often they use stolen credit cards too.
It’s not about them though, it’s about convincing potential customers that the real product/asset has more value to them than a pirated version from a torrent - containing who-knows-what types of malware.
I haven’t experienced this - all the support for my products seems to come from valid customers.
I do a bit of snooping now and again and there’s always the vocal few. Yeah there will always be all types, and I’ve seen some that seem to just do it for a ftw attitude - I’d like to think they will grow out of it.
Yeah I had a play with one a number of years ago to see how well they worked - very well it turned out… For Modding I can imagine they would be very helpful.
Their mentality has to change. Their inner voice that tells them it would be acceptable. First off, the end product might be exactly the same to them when the pirate delivers it. They might not be aware / not care about legal matters, they might not be aware what the EPIC marketplace offers or they might even have had such a bad time on the marketplace that they moved to the pirate service. It’s the service that needs to be optimal from start to end, so that they can get the product more easily, safely, automatically etc. The marketplace service must be fine as well everything from performance to filters to terms and conditions etc. IF people arrive on the marketplace, they must be kept there before they bounce off to check out the pirate service. “Free” is like honey to bees.
They might just be not the person you want as a customer. For someone used to the asset marketplace this will sound odd, but choosing who you want as a connection and customer is very common and rewarding for both sides. I think putting the product online for anyone to buy is risky and not rewarding long term. Some licensing / pricing options that could be displayed have been discussed earlier but you’d still have the product out there to thousands of potential pirates and a large percentage of buyers that are not really (or not at all) your target. My personal preference would be doing business B2B and pick the good connections but that’s me.
Yes they are valid customers, what I mean is that there is a large difference between selling to 20 big companies or 300 hobby developers. When the product is sold the next phases start, including ones that cost money such as support and maintenance. It’s easy to underestimate and hard to control when anyone can hit the buy button. In business with larger companies there is more money to be made for both sides with far less connections to maintain. In most cases, this is just the way to go for sellers. B2C for marketplace assets is not bad, it just looks unrealistic both financially and how much time there will be available for support. Add to that what I mentioned earlier, it’s available to everyone so it can be 20 buyers or 2000 and each can be a pirate.
What I wonder is, how much can we reduce piracy of marketplace assets (source data) if sales are reduced to B2B and customers of choice. It should really be up to you as a seller. If you sell only to businesses of X employees with a certain reputation in your country, good for you 
. I’m thinking out loud here.
Aren’t you losing the thread here? Your whole point has been that asset editing should be prevented, because the selling artist should have the final say on the use of the assets they sell. You’re the one arguing for a “lock bit” that somehow magically prevents data from being edited on the buyers computer.
Show me one asset buyer who will say “I would like to be prevented from further editing the assets I buy in the marketplace, so that the pristine final creation of the original artist is always preserved.” If that’s truly what any number of asset buying customers want, then, sure, go ahead!
You’re mixing subjects again and putting words were I never said them. When I said the customer has the final say, I was referring to your previous Rant: “Someone who believes they have the final say”.
For any personal stuff you may hold against me… just send me a long email if that makes you feel better. Let’s keep the conversion strictly to FAB. Thank you!
two words - No updates
That’s been exactly my strategy and it’s been rewarding. Of course, pirates don’t like expensive stuff, so the only thing they can do is to bully the product page in the questions section. Which is another elephant in the room that FAB needs to address.
I don’t know - that could be flipped to a Boycott which could break anti-trust laws. I’m no lawyer though… Interesting idea though, it’s not something I’d do (it’s not really about the money for me, although I do need to live) but if a seller is inundated with support it could help control it. Could help with piracy too.
It should reduce almost entirely. That’s my guess. You rarely see Companies trying to hack in order to save pocket change money (too risky for them).
This also reinforces the idea to implement an “Enterprise” license into FAB. A win-win scenario for everyone.
I would love to study law on this. It seems it depends. Myself I decide who I do business with and offer my services to. I write my own agreements. I don’t do this on the EPIC marketplace (yet). This freedom of choosing who you do business with is normally ok. On the wiki a context is described in which this behavior is used to inflict damages, which should be described in the anti-trust laws.
Since 99.9% of sellers will not be lawyers such freedom will likely have to be decided by the marketplace itself.
Edit: It’s strange when you think of it. If the marketplace offers full freedom and by some media influence a large group decides to stop doing business with a certain country, there is a problem because it will be noticable and this specific marketplace is affected. If it’s just one guy deciding the same thing (but not to inflict damages) then it’s fine. Sure there must be solutions to this. There is the option of setting up your own webshop, that is a very different road but it is a road.
Edit 2: Or, sellers get full freedom. When you start a business you know you have to deal with laws and you know you need to dig a bit. You could say unless law states so, it’s not the marketplace who should instruct / deal with misbehaving sellers unless it wants to.
Not my experience. I actually published a ton of stuff, all with very good reviews. Got to imagine that the devs who want to make a living from selling quality stuff are facing the horrors of the business side as well.
Those “loud argumentive” people provide feedback which is essential in creating value and improving quality. Everyone is going to have entirely different perspectives and needs. There wil be “loud” sellers, customers, developers, colleagues, relations, deal with it. I love to be loud when I smell b*llshit from a mile away and I know I can add value.
I can manage the problems discussed earlier in various ways that the current marketplace doesn’t offer. It’s the marketplace we are discussing.
How ironic… Think we are done talking. I’d not even use a “this is under construction”, it’s either done or not done, or it just causes harm. Any web dev knows this.
Cheap attempt to personally attack people on topics we literally discussed, from someone who spent 345 days on the forums and provided 0 answers, but I’ll just put you on the blacklist.
@RecourseDesign @elemento I have this feeling tagging staff here has not got us any results. Do you get a better experience asking for support as a seller? Or perhaps an alternative route to put an issue ticket in their system for the ideas we discussed?
