What you need to do is stop dictating what someone else does with their own distribution platform. Don’t like the current digital storefronts? Go make your own and limit the platform to only “professional” developers and then make sure you come back here when it doesn’t work out the way you imagined it in your perfect little vision you have now.
I have been let down so many times in the last 5 years by the biggest studios in the industry. I would much rather give my money to an unproven developer any day. They ask a fraction of what these so called “professional” studios do for a title and most times I am pretty happy with what I get for my money. Steam makes this possible not some totalitarian minded platform where only a few are allowed to sell.
I’m not talking about classifying developers as the OP said, I’m just saying there should be a basic level of review for game submissions. Clearly Valve thinks this is an issue considering how much they’ve tried to do things to make it easier to find the good games but always stop short of actually reviewing the games.
It may not look like it now, but steam is struggling to maintain relevance, if they were to only host professional made games at this point then any platform that built itself to cater to the indies would end up crushing steam. Don’t think about this in terms of hours played and dollars spent, think of this in terms of hours spent shopping. People love the hunt for a new game and say what you will, I know I can download anything by EA and have the same repackaged feeling I get when I watch anything out of the MCU now.
And while I think some level of QC may be a good thing…a move by steam to only cater to those who could pay such a fee would be the death of steam.
I don’t understand why some of you think indie gaming is somehow crucial to the gaming industry. The majority of people I know either don’t care about indie games at all or if they do only play very specific ones. I think you are massively overestimating just how much the consumer actually cares about indie games.
And imposing a fee of a few grand would also not kill indies except for the ones who have no money or times to do this properly. Just lmao at saying this would kill steam. If 90% of indie games vanished from steam right now 99% of steam users would probably not even notice or care.
EDIT: I would also like to add that even games like Super Meat boy and Brad took huge amounts of time/money to make. As a mere hobby developer, you would not be able to make even those kind of games.
Relax bro, no one’s dictating here, they are all voicing opinions.
And while I do believe Valve has all the rights to do what it wants to as a private company and respectably so. But so does EA for that matter, Except the community of gamers gave them a bashing for those microtransactions, and rightfully so, now they are thinking twice about it. No matter how much we say that private owners can do what they want, I think after a certain scale of power and influence over a certain sector this argument once again goes into murky waters and becomes open to certain regulations, legislations, open pressure and arguments. In the end Valve remains to have the full freedom of choice.
Developers like Edmund wouldn’t be making great, successful games, if he wasn’t a couch developer and releasing tons of “crappy” games on a free/open marketplace 16 years ago.
I think your assumption that hobby developers automatically output bad quality is ignorant. Doing this as a hobby won’t necessarily change the quality of their game, it will just take longer to reach said quality because they’re not spending as much time on it weekly. Because it’s a hobby to them are they not allowed to earn any money off what they make at all? For most indies, just gamedev isn’t enough to pay the bills because it takes years to create a decent game and it would be financial suicide to have 0 income until the release of their game. So they work and dev in their free time to keep their heads above water.
I agree that Steam Direct needs to have entry fee at 10-20 times higher than it is right now. But your rant about “couch developers” is completely misplaced.
There are plenty of great and high quality games made by “couch developers” as you call them. Thumper is one of such games:
It took about 7-8 years to make it, for various reasons (watch their GDC talk for details).
In my opinion it’s quite the opposite, the game market could be way better if majority of devs wouldn’t need to care about monetary side at all. “developers who make games as a full time job” - have the least opportunity to experiment and explore new game ideas as it’s a big financial risk.
Besides, is there a linear way to differentiate between “couch devs” and “full time devs” over the internet? How would steam even know? With a checkbox?
Besides, is there a linear way to differentiate between “couch devs” and “full time devs” over the internet? How would steam even know? With a checkbox?
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Couch devs won’t typically fork out a few grand to get their game on steam because they fear they won’t make even that money back. Pro devs would.
I think your assumption that hobby developers automatically output bad quality is ignorant. Doing this as a hobby won’t necessarily change the quality of their game, it will just take longer to reach said quality because they’re not spending as much time on it weekly.
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lmao so you are going spend anywhere between 10-20 years working on the same game?
Money has nothing to do with pro/hobby.
Skydiving, scuba diving, motor sports, … - do you know how much these hobbies costs? A lot. And yet people are willing to spent a fortune on them.
There are people who do that, Dwarf Fortress, Unreal World, Avernum Series, Dominions to name a few, last two come in installments but base game is the same.These games where in development before Steam even existed. The assumption that game made by someone not as part of their daily job is somehow inferior and shouldn’t be monetized or pursuit is just plane rubbish.
You can be a “couch dev”, with amazing talent and the ability to write good running code / blueprints. Or you can be a corporate guy with alot of money, in for another quick cash grab. The problem is not going to be generally solved with higher entry fees to Steam direct. What Steam needs is quality control and guidelines. Being “corporate” also does not solve the problem, there are PS4 games on Sony’s digital store of horrible quality made by registered companies aka. “pro devs”.
There has to be a small team at Valve, who tests the game and gives professional feedback to the developer on where they can improve the game. People who can detect a cheap asset flip. Nothing wrong with buying assets of a content store and using them, though. But reskinning full game templates and selling them on Steam should never ever be allowed.
Oculus is doing a pretty good job with quality control, while still being open to all kinds of developers. They have two tiers of app categories, the once who got approved by their team and gallery apps. Maybe this could work for Steam too.
Totally agree on that. I just think that a minimum standard of technical quality and not being allowed to sell reskinned asset flips as five different games, should be expected.
Then what is stopping you from just sharing the cost with them? a few grand split between a few people isn’t that much money.
Then why not just safe up during the development process? Saving up a few grand over 10 years isn’t hard.
No, it’s a very reasonable one. I don’t understand why there is so much denial about the fact that game development is expensive. I mean sure, past a certain point more money doesn’t automatically mean better games. But indie devs will never ever ever ever ever ever reach that point.
Not sure what your point is. Even games like Battlefront 2 are of order of magnitude higher quality than anything most indie devs are putting out. And it doesn’t matter how talented you are if you don’t have enough time to develop your game, and the only way to get that time is by working on it full time. This cannot be done without paying yourself a wage or being paid by someone else, and that costs money.
Listen guys, why can’t you just accept that making games isn’t free? Even if literally your only expense was food and rent+your computer and the software used, it would STILL cost tens of thousands of dollars to make your game. TALENT DOESN’T MAKE GAME DEVELOPMENT FREE!!!
Valve has already said they won’t do this because it’s too subjective exactly what is a good game. But simply forcing people to pay more is a good way of getting rid of the trash because if people aren’t very confident their game will sell they won’t risk losing a few grand to get it into the store.
Perhaps you’ve missed it - I agree that Steam Direct barrier should have been much higher than what it is. But that has nothing to do with developers being professional or not.
Anyway, as Steam is getting flooded and discovery there is zero, the same money, that could have been spent for entry barrier, will be just added to marketing spend outside of Steam. So steam just stop being a marketing platform, not a big deal for anyone who already knows how to advertise your game. My only gripe with this is that you basically need publishers again, if you want a trouble free press coverage for your game and focus on development side instead.
If we’re going that way, then why not $100k? If you have a team of 10 people over 10 years, then it’s just 1k / year / person. How hard can that be, right?
No. Game development is not expensive. It can be expensive. But it can also be inexpensive. Depends on the game.
Let’s see how much it costs for a skilled hobbyist dev: computer + steam fee + time = $1000 + $100 + 0 = $1100. Not so expensive, after all.
Why even bother then? Ok guys, you heard him, turn off your computers and get a real paying job.
What indie dev wants to develop a game like BF2? Everyone. But, only those delusional “mmorpg type of guys” that never developed a game and have no skill are trying to make the next CoD or BF.
Now, Mr. splattenburgers, are you for any chance a pro game dev?
I don’t understand why some of you think indie gaming is somehow crucial to the gaming industry. The majority of people I know either don’t care about indie games at all or if they do only play very specific ones. I think you are massively overestimating just how much the consumer actually cares about indie games.
And imposing a fee of a few grand would also not kill indies except for the ones who have no money or times to do this properly. Just lmao at saying this would kill steam. If 90% of indie games vanished from steam right now 99% of steam users would probably not even notice or care.
EDIT: I would also like to add that even games like Super Meat boy and Brad took huge amounts of time/money to make. As a mere hobby developer, you would not be able to make even those kind of games.
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As of yet indie gaming is not important to most people because quite frankly while the gaming industry has generated some irritation it has not yet generated enough irritation to cause people to reconsider how they spend their money, although we would be remiss if we did not take into account that recently EA games created the most hated comment in reddit history.
But with that being said there is something to be said about industries being forward looking, and I am going to assume that by your presence here that you are aware that there are indeed game engines available to the public and that these game engines are improving in usability at the same time the public is becoming more and more literate in programming all the while digital assets are collecting here and there and for the most part are very accessible to the public, and it would be the mark of a very short sighted company to exclude an entire market. The very act of excluding a market could give said market the credibility it needs for consumers to begin taking notice the next time when some idiot in PR generates the next most hated comment in reddit history.
The reason why steam will publish almost any crap title right now is so that they don’t create their next competitor, Steam is winning but it is their game to lose.