I hate Blueprints and C++ and the crashes every 5 minutes of Unreal, and the fact that there is no working editor on linux and launcher client(i know theres oficial guide how to install on linux but it doesnt work for me and takes hours to build).
The problem with blueprints is that the interaction between them is complex and weird and not flexible enough like C#. C++ is a monster you should never have to use but people will argue to death to you about that, C++ is only for performance parts not for gameplay logic, but “purists” will tell you otherwise, BP’s are much slower to prototype and in performance than anything else C#, java, Go(man i would love to use Go instead of BP’s), and BP’s are essentially just another programming language, you have to understand programming to use BP’s effectively(not C++ style of programming) learning Go or python or lua is even simpler than BP’s its just takes a bit more to get started if you never programmed, but then after a few days/weeks you fly through coding gameplay, with BP’s nope its all mystery how you can get access to required component and how to organize data in BP’s who calls what and how its spaghetti wires(litteraly spagheti code) all over the place.
Im so frustrated that Epic is so vehement about BP’s, not considering at all a scripting language alternative. C# is a no go that alone would have brought thousands of devs from Unity to Unreal, but even other scripting languages would have made a big difference in UE4 adoption/ease of use.
Right now you cant even use C++ without BP’s, the whole engine is BP’s cant go around without using them.
Epic has considered it, and decided to focus on C++ and Blueprint. They have little reason to use their resources on something others are willing to handle for them. We already got SkookumScript and the Xamarin team at Microsoft is working with Epic to bring solid C# scripting to UE4.
Indie does not imply small team. That is what you and many other mistakenly accosiate it with. I do understand why people make this accosiation, but it does’t make it less wrong/incorrect.
However I think skookum script + blueprints is a very good combo if you want to be productive as possible.
Also you’re comparing learning unreal engine + making prototype vs prototyping in unity. if you take away the learning in unreal then it would be a lot quicker. for some games I think it’s quicker in UE4…
Also there are many tools in Unreal than unity. Unity is simple to learn because there isn’t much to learn. you have to make the tools or purchase them… don’t get me started on unity plugins…
When did that happen, i never seen any announcement or update that MS is working to bring C# to UE4, last time i was reading about it mono/xamarin team abandoned the project, people where saying its never going to happen and should forget about it.
Even tough im not a fan of MS in general, C# is a big thing, they should really consider it already, there are so many C# devs its crazy to not support it imo. If i wouldnt have to ever again use BP’s except for materials and animation setup where it makes sense, maybe even those can be Csharped, it would be amazing, being able to do networking and not having to touch C++ dream.
Skookum whatever is irrelevant never heard of it, and there are 0 tutorials about it and its not officially supported, i need something tightly integrated to UE4engine like unity+c# using latest C# 7.0 , and oficially supported, which means with every new release everything is tested to build/work with C# aswell.
Back to the topic, indeed BP’s are not worth the hassle, and neither is C++, C++ should only be available for edit, in case big teams with experts want to extend the engine or do something different. No matter what type of game ill make i would only use C# if it were available.
I see your point but it really does come down to your project and what your own goals are, at the moment I set myself a deadline to get at least an hour playable demo out by Xmas… If people like it then I’ll start getting a team involved to pick up the pace, right now though I see it as a challenging project that’s defined by my own limitations. To me that’s how it should be, if I have an issue with Unity’s sub rendering (SDK’s) then I either have to accept that’s the way it is or release it anyway. Although personally I’m not willing to compromise and rely on a third party (hoping they will fix X) to make sure my project will see the light of day.
I’ve been using UE4 since beta and I’ve been using Unity for four years, I see it as six of one half a dozen of the other… Because there’s a lot of lacking tools in Unity and it’s far easier to learn something than it is to write it from scratch, sure there’s so much learning material (due to the age of the engine), the core systems are easier (even from an import pipeline standpoint) and it is faster to ground a prototype…
Although what matters to me the most is the end product and for all the extra effort / learning UE will incur I believe it’s worth while… Also you have to be careful gazing up at other projects, I’ve seen some screenie’s that surpass anything I’ve ever seen from AAA developers and not by a small amount. There’s a reason for that, it wouldn’t be sustainable in an actual project and from a solo perspective AAA / AA or A+ battery games aren’t my competition.
Although I do have my doubts from time to time, I’m sure we all get stuck somewhere and feel the same. I asked @TheJamsh the other day if it’s worth really digging deep into a project with UE (having a momentary wobble), am I biting off more than I can chew? I’ve been doing this a fair while and at times it definately feels somewhat overwhelming. I do think sometimes Epic seem to be a little more fixated on features than simplifying processes / documentation / ease of use / stability and performance… Which is the most important “bread and butter” parts of making a game, although I can’t deny there’s a couple of things I wouldn’t mind myself, like SVOTI.!
Here’s the main crux, Epic tried the AAA path… It didn’t work, if they want more games / more royalty then the “bread and butter” might need a slab of jam on top.
They are keeping a low profile. The latest communication from Xamarin, two weeks ago, was “We’re still working on the project, but have a few things to iron out before we can release it”. But if you need an “official” version from Epic, you better go back to Unity.
“It didn’t work” is not that accurate. They have been successful licensing Unreal for close to 20 years, most of the time for AAA exclusively. And their current strategy seems to work, with 2015 being a record year for engine revenue and 2016 doubling that amount. Epic has been extremely successful in adapting to the market shifts.
I might be wrong but I’ve seen a fair few talking in the past about Epic hitting hard financial times and Tencent investing brought them back into the fold, but it’s great to hear they are doing well now as Unity having an indie monopoly was never a good thing… Although ultimatley it’s irrelevant to the topic at hand anyway, making things easier / more efficient / stable / more intuitive is never a bad thing.
Unity feels easy (but it is not) because of the .NET framework which has a library for anything you may think of.
The problem there is, many .NET “scripters” don’t really know programming, because they rely on .NET to be able to build anything…
When a platform has no access to C# and .Net libs, they have no idea what to do, claiming Unity is easier to work with.
Easier is subjective, and so I cannot say that these people are simply wrong. And, especially on forums, we see people who are hopelessly out of their depth with either engine on a regular basis.
For me the choice comes down to the details of the project and the skills and time resources of the team who are supposed to make it happen.
Also have to watch out because ‘easier’ often refers to the initial learning curve. And the real danger for some projects may lurk in the last 10% of work getting the product ready to ship, not the first 10%.
I’ve worked in the indie scene and AAA scene for over a decade and there are a few truisms that cross both scenes:
Game Development is HARD. Like, REALLY hard. Even shipping the smallest game is a monumental task, especially for one person. Scope accordingly.
Communication is key (especially inter-discipline communication - e.g. Art/Design/Programming must all have open channels with each other and talk frequently. Yes, Programming may tell you “No” on a feature, they don’t hate you - they just want to actually ship the game).
If you’re a coder, learn C++ and basic CompSci. C++ is THE industry standard. You will need to edit it and at the very least be able to read it so you can understand what your various 3rd party tools are doing. You can complain about how easy it is to blow your foot off with C++ till the cows come home, but as long as it’s the industry standard you MUST learn it.
Most of all, be patient and willing to learn. As mentioned before, Game development is not easy. You need to understand you’ll run into bugs or issues that you think are the end of the world and unsolvable - use the forums, or other online resources to POLITELY ask for help and 99.9% of the time you’ll find someone who has either solved that problem before, or can offer you an alternate approach to avoid the problem all together.
Game Design, just like any other form of art, takes time, skill, and patience. Unreal is by far the most powerful engine (just look at Mass Effect 1 - 3 vs Mass Effect Andromeda (Cryengine)) and yes, it has more features and design elements than one dev may ever use in one single game. Keep in mind though, UE is build as a framework, and not meant to be a GameMake 8 or FPS Creator. The tools they give are designed to be built upon. For example, the damage (AnyDamage event, Received Any Damage function, etc…) is great for simple damage mechanics, but for projects like the one I am working on require me to run a Switch (returns a different execution output for each of my Enums for the types of damage) and return the Damage Type, then I run individual scripts from the Enemy parent blueprint that either catch them on fire, bleed them, execute them, etc… Also systems like the damage system have built in measure (again simplified and must be further refined to suit your project) where you can create a Damage Type called, for example, Out of Bounds Damage, that way whenever this damage is dealt, the actor knows it is because it went out of bounds of the map. All systems in UE4 are designed by the Epic team in a manner any mechanic can be used in any game it is needed and be further refined to be used exactly how you want; otherwise, they give you all of the tools to start a system from scratch if there’s does not do what you need.
I do agree that Unreal is the hardest to learn, has the most complicated UI, and has more features than any engine has the right to; but is that bad? Game development is hard and you will have to take the hard path to learning either way. The reason there is such a learning curb for Unity to UE4, is because Unity isn’t used in virtually any games every year that get AAA status. The major engines are all difficult, and UE4 is not just for boring slow cinematic anti-action games. It was used for Gears of War 1-3, Mass Effect 1 - 3, all Bioshock games, and so much more. The reason many are slower is because Unreal allows things that no other engine is capable of OEM. You have the ability to tell a story to involve the player while retaining an incredible game even if it isn’t just the action doing it justice. UE4 allows developers to make games that movies pull from rather than vice versa. Unreal is worth every effort, and if you truly believe that you love Game Design and know it is what you want to do, your passion, you won’t give up. And just think, UE4 is the best place to go as an indie dev; Cliff Bleszinski created his game and sent it to Tim Sweeney and he decided to sell it and start the engine with him. Unreal is the best place for you because you have so much more creative control over the project, assets, and every other aspect. Plus, the updates come once every one to two months so you will be able to fix issues with great support and great customer support. Also, no other community is as helpful, supportive, and fun to talk to than that of Unreal Engine.
