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I want Feedback from Epic about Mono for Unreal Engine

I’ve tried Mono for Unreal already, but the tool is simply not mature enough yet because they lack the man-power to develop it, therefore I think it is up to Epic to take responsibility because the potential is simply enormous, for both Epic and Xamarin – just think one minute how popular it would be if every Unity user suddenly started to use Unreal Engine instead.

Epic wants to allow level-designer and artists to script the game play via Blueprint, and that is the proof they want to open game development to a larger group of potential users, in that case it would also make sense to open it to lamba-developers, don’t you think ?

You don’t want C#, fine, some people do not want Blueprints either and yet there no one is making a drama about it.

The C++ in Unreal is not C++, I mean it is, but it isn’t. The layer of Unreal over the C++ makes it almost a different language entirely. Switching to C# isn’t going to make programming easier on Unreal, because the ‘Uneral Layer’ will still be overtop the C#. If people want to spend their time making a wrapper, fine, but quit bothering Epic with these request. Their time is better spent doing QA on the features we need and have, rather than catering to a crowd who refuses to learn a industry standard language.

And I wish there would be something like a primer or a fundamental documentation on UE4.
A little tour of the code that really starts with the most priimitive classes that are derived directly from native C++ classes.
Having a little tree that illustrated the class hierachy would be most helpfull :slight_smile:

The fact that C++ is a"industry standard language" and other languages are not is a very subjective remark, not every body would agree with that.

C++ in Unreal makes me think a bit about Qt, and I am glad to see that they made efforts to improve usability of C++ coding, however it would never reach the ease of use of C# and all the nice syntactic sugar, ever, there is not point arguing about that.

Thanks Mike I’m really pleased to hear from you guys, and to hear that you are also listening to want users want.

Here a few comments to what you said…

Fair enough to defend Epic’s position by saying “if you want it just do it”…

However I find this argument a bit too easy IMHO, then why would Epic keep on implementing new features if users or 3rd party could develop it instead…

Open-sourcing is great but you guys should not rely on this too much for such important features and between you and me, we both know that if it’s not officially supported by Epic, scripting solutions are quite unlikely to reach a very mature state, and users will never use it.

Well that’s a step forward…I’m glad to hear that you are open to scripting in UE4. I agree that C# should not be prioritized over more wanted scripting languages.

What about creating a community-based poll in order to decide which language should be supported in the future ?
And the most favorite language would then get Epic’s attention for a built-in support (A real one, not like the LUA plugin…).

Well that’s interesting news…tell us more :slight_smile:

–Mike
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I can answet that, qith question. Did you saw game made by Epic which is done fully in blueprint, except Tappy Chicken ?
While blueprints are awesome, nice, and it’s best thing since sliced bread(no arguments!), I don’t think most people even consider making serious game fully in them.

As an end point they are great (connect few nodes, like 4-6 and buf! you have new gameplay element, which just call to pre setup C++ interface) or as for prototyping, I can hardly imagine someone making fully big game with them.

Just because there is hammer around laying, doesn’t mean you should use it to kill flies.

The same IMO is going for other non C++ languages. With even less benefits. Blueprints are fairly easy to understand by virtually anyone. While written languages, are not. For me it doesn’t make any difference. But people who never wrote line of code, doesn’t care if it C++, C#, Go, Visual Basic. It’s the same arcane magic beyond understanding at first glance.

Aside from that. There is no real reason to implement anything else. Hardness of C++ (especially in wrapped version in UE4) is mainly based around prejudices, not any facts. Look, there are people around forums, who are artists, and yet know how to code in C++ ;).

They add features, that most people want(and what they need). As you can easily judge, people around don’t want scripting integration from Epic. More over most people seems to be clearly opposed to such thing.
Because it would take resources, which could be used to add new features, that are actually needed, or improving existing ones.

C++ API in UE4 is great and I like it very much, but there are some features just impossible without some form of scripting on mobile platform, like hot-code-updating without going through AppStore. Nearly every online game in China is using this technique to facilitate super fast iteration (commonly 1 to several updates everyday, which is impossible with the slow review process of AppStore), so having this feature is crucial to be competitive on this market. For now the market is dominated by Unity, I’d be very happy to see UE4 to take over.

Blueprint is great in small scale scripting and prototyping, but I don’t see the benefits in real production of complex games, the graphs in TappyChicken are way too CRAZY and FRIGHTENING for such a simple game!

Well, I have quite a background as a Delphi programmer and still C++ is somewhat “weird” to me.
Take for example the string handling. Im used to have a string as a basic data type. Now I started reading through the C++ primer, but still cant figure out how to concatenate strings mixed with integers (and storing it in a string variable. im not talking about cout << “text” << x << “more text”; here)…
So C++ is perhaps not the most intuitive language.
One reason why so many people like C# is the fact that it borrowed some nice stuff from Pascal, syntax-wise and also conceptionally.
Today I wouldnt use the original Turbo Pascal anymore either, but Object Pascal is equally strong as C++.
So introducing C# would offer a compromise between the two worlds.

Can you then recommend good reading material that explains the specific parts that Unreal introduces to C++?

I disagree. You want them to spend time integrating C# which takes time away from relevant development, there would have to be a good reason why they should put their time into letting you use C# over C++. I don’t think there’s a good reason.

FYI in your original post you are already debating this.

As a programmer you need to adapt and learning C++ in EU4 will benefit you in the end.

String handling in C++ proper is awful, but in Unreal there’s FString which operates a lot like C# strings. std::string is also pretty easy to use, but not as much as it could be.

Here’s a intro to c++ in Unreal: A new, community-hosted Unreal Engine Wiki - Announcements and Releases - Unreal Engine Forums

Thanks :slight_smile: I hope reading through this will lessen the culture shock…

I don’t know why Epic needs to comment over this, they didn’t made source code just for people to watch it, they didn’t make plug-in system only for there own use, they did that so people can extend engine as they like without need of bothering them. If people want C#, people can implement C# if they wish… and this is what happening, so i don’t see point of discussing this over and over again.

Also fact that Unity uses C# does not mean every engine in the world is obligated to implement it. Unity is also written in C++, it could also let you use C++ to extend and code game, not because to make your life harder, but because it’s simply easier this way, but because Unity developers don’t want you to even see Unity source code they actually needed something like C# to let you make more serious development on that engine yet keep the source code in there hands, i bet you would not see C# in Unity if not that fact… why they would struggle with licencing issues otherwise?

Personally I believe that once Epic overhauls C++ documentation in more detail and code examples, the initial fear of learning C++ that some people have right now would be alleviated.

Eventually all roads will lead back to C++ because that’s what the engine is written in. The fact that we have access to the code warrants one has knowledge of C++ for advanced features.

Unless everyone plans to remain a beginner/intermediate UE4 user? :slight_smile:

I was hoping for some kind of Unity like solution, but it appears that Xamarin is just re-packaging their mono license with this. For one man team licensing at $83/m for visual studio support is a bit too much.

I develop game logic/server with F#, which rocks, but I am fine without it for now. Maybe .NET open sourcing move will give way to free versions of .NET, until then I’ll use C++.

This exactly. I’d love to use .NET until I hit a hotspot that needed to be in C++, but right now that’s not feasible. Here’s hoping Microsoft’s moves lead toward a free cross platform .NET.

Everyone keeps talking about open sourced C# from M$, but as far as I recall they only opened up portions of the platform (.NET) so it’s not really that everything is open for free use.

Hey, forgot to mention, Visual Assist X (plugin for Visual Studio) makes C++ almost as smooth as C# when it comes to intellisense and auto completion. I’ve used it with Cocos2d, it completely changes the game for the better.

They open sourced everything but WPF and some other layers we can live without. Core framework is OSS. Their bet is now to suck everyone to host their apps on azure and use their overpriced cloud services.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2014/11/12/net-core-is-open-source.aspx

I may repeat / or lost the plot.

EPIC / Unreal - who ever you are angry about;

There is a choice, if I ran a company and a great suggestion came up, but it would not work, then I would turn it down.

This is made the way it is, and it works. Good for me.

Narg

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