For estimate problem.
Need enable Inspector tool, select point lasso tool and select this part of sparse cloud when such crunk is exist.
Usually you will see two or more separate islands with connected cameras. ANd this mean no tracks or weak track between cameras in this islands. And as result alignment error and error in mesh.
And for such shifted surfaces CP mostly useless, much better add more images in between this camera islands.
If no chance… using select points tool select part with error, Find Cameras, and set CP points on this cameras if good overlap, this will fix erorr. But required too much time for manual work.
About time I learn about the inspector tool, will try this to see what’s meant with “two islands”, but get the idea. I’ve used that second workflow you described, found it useful to identify the problem children images, plenty of overlap to other images, but overly converged and looking into the distance, which I know invites problems. I inspected these photos and saw they didn’t contribute much, so I disabled them, new alignment resolved the issue.
I’m now clear on detected features stored in cache per 2D versus tie points stored in components and seen in 3D, how then to use Merge using overlap, Use component features, and Use all image features. Then these diagnostics, it’s making better sense. Many thanks, Vladlen.
That all makes good sense, do like the analogy linking the TPs in Component/DFs in cache relationship to the 3D mental construct/2D visual info per eye. In a y-up world, the X/Y values are common to both the DFs and the TPs, our brains hallucinate the Z value, photogrammetry’s calculations predict similar results.
I take it you were already familiar with the 3 Feature source settings, am curious if you agree these largely define the extent of user control over plasticity.
Benjy
Hi Benjy,
sorry, didn’t get around to all of your post yesterday…
To be honest, I haven’t played around with that at all and Use All Image Features is the preset…
Is there an option for a whole component? Because I did not find that…
I think you lost me there in the ether of the intricate details of how photogrammtry works - the iron analogy. :?
We need to chat about that as you suggested!
I suspect that all those intricacies are probably already manageable, if one understands photogrammetry from within, as a mathematician or software engineer.
But here is the line for me - I am a practical user and in the end just muddling through…
I am glad it worked out for you!
Your stuff sounds really amazing.
And also looks amazing, on your website - the brick tunnel with rails, perfekt right back to the last obscure corner!
How many images did that take???
Thanks to both of you, Benjy and Vladlen, for explaining the component merging again.
I remember now that I did come across that in the past.
Really need to get this into my head, but then there is so much!
And after all, I also need to do my “real” work still, which is buildings archaeology…
My common way from 2px to 0.5px. with grouped by EXIF and final refinement with ungrouped images.
Sounds exactly like I imagined it should be possible.
I tried it once but it only broke up in different components…
What do you mean by refinement with ungrouped images?
By default grouping lens on import by EXIF is disabled in global settings. But must be always On.
RC will treat all images with identical EXIF settings as 1 lens, and will be used features on all grouped images to estimate this lens settings.
Usually i have about 5-6 groups. Because i use Zoom lenses and often switch from horizontal to vertical.
So lets imagine we refine alignment up to 0.5px and have 99% images aligned (if we don’t made any mistakes, if did, we was used CPs). So we have 1-6 groups with 1-5 lens settings. But zoom also change lens and as result undistortions. So before final refinement, we select “Images” word in 1D view and choose Ungroup.
And run Align again. Now all cameras treat as independent lenses ans RC can finally refine small deviations. And as result (not always, can’t in rare cases) final alignment is more precised.
Could somebody give me a heads up about Force Rematch, what exactly does it do?
And where do I set Use All Image Features or Use Component Features?
I can only find it in the images - is that the same as for the alignment?
But why would I set this in the Images Menu and not the Alignment Settings?
And the standard is All Features anyway, so I don’t see where I might have gone wrong.
Confused…
About my heavy weight CPs:
I just meant that it can be used to identify CPs on individual images, that have been misplaced.
There have been cases where I got a little speck on a stone wall entirely wrong and also placing them EXACTLY right is sometimes also trickier than at the first glance. Especially if there are dozens of CPs with many images per CP.
I am starting to suspect that our problems, Benjy, might be also down to unusual object characteristics.
The ideal object is a smooth granite rock, that you can put on a white turntable and shoot away in perfect conditions.
Our objects differ greatly. For one thing, they are concave but convex (when I am indoors) and for another, they are usually dark (in your case absolutely). Lighting them absolutely evenly is impossible, even with almost unlimited resources. Also, we have wildly prodruding parts of the objects, which come very close to the camera - bad for light and bad for focus. I am aware that all this can probably be resolved in some way, but it makes it much harder than other objects (the ones in the ads).
Anyway, great discussion, I’ve learned a lot!
Thanks Benjy for initiating it and Vladlen for providing the “professional” background.
Keep it going!
By default grouping lens on import by EXIF is disabled in global settings. But must be always On.
RC will treat all images with identical EXIF settings as 1 lens, and will be used features on all grouped images to estimate this lens settings.
Usually i have about 5-6 groups. Because i use Zoom lenses and often switch from horizontal to vertical.
So lets imagine we refine alignment up to 0.5px and have 99% images aligned (if we don’t made any mistakes, if did, we was used CPs). So we have 1-6 groups with 1-5 lens settings. But zoom also change lens and as result undistortions. So before final refinement, we select “Images” word in 1D view and choose Ungroup.
And run Align again. Now all cameras treat as independent lenses ans RC can finally refine small deviations. And as result (not always, can’t in rare cases) final alignment is more precised.
Thank you so much for this one!
I tried grouping a couple of times but was never satisfied - I also use zoom lenses.
With your method it finally makes sense!
You really opened my eyes about the gradual process.
I guess Benjy will agree once he’s up…
Do. It remember exactly what’s going. But if I remember right. RC will clean all calculated information and will use pose/lens/etc priors (if the exist).
So result similar to like create new project import images and run alignment. Except it will reuse detected features from cache if you did not change some of advanced settings.
Ah. Phew!
Somebody should write that down in a neat little diagram…
Thank you again!!!
Here’s the result of the first try as you suggested with my roofspace.
Almost perfect, even the rafters almost line up at the loose ends, thats like 2-3 cm on 8 m long arms in Z direction!
Before that, I did have quite a big issue on the lowest storey.
No idea why I didn’t like it at the time I first tried it…
