Had that feeling when I thought about the Sniper Elite slomos it pulls you out of the gameplay for a “cutscene” which doesn’t fit quick action. Some other games managed to work with dilation + action, SuperHot and Dusk for example:
Those slow time to a crawl as long as you don’t move. Maybe a similar sort of power could be interesting where you stand still to plan which target you hit next, but then when you move the cursor time speeds up to match the distance the cursor travels. Another way the Sniper Elite “cutscene” might work is similar to the “finishing move” some games have like uhhh Shinobi or Sekiro, where the last hit on a boss or the finishing move ending a group of enemies shows a special move.
Doesn’t have to be a bad thing. It can be a tactical “power” which you build up by killing enemies then activate when things get super difficult or something. Like the Ultimate in Overwatch, or star power in the Mario games, or the monster transformation in The Suffering. Plenty of games do it actually, to spice up gameplay or to break / balance the tension a bit. I mean imagine something like this:
Tension builds as the player fights through hordes of zombies trying to survive.
Player finds flamethrower parts and fuel (a superpower) through the level.
On low health you arrive at an epic fight against a swarm of enemies and torch the entire level with the flamethrower.
I heard about this game before, never played this, but looks cool. It is just not a style i like.
As an additional game mode this could work a similar way in combination with the cursor movement. I somehow like the idea thank you
Really not sure how to use the headshot time diletion at the moment, i only know i need to find a way because i like it an i guess others will also. At least as an addition and selectable as option. Only for highscore hunters this can not be done (at least i dont see how) because time diletion would give you an clear advantage.
I tried today how this kinda bone break would look like. I guess this can give you some funny moments so i will stay with the idea for this. Using this also for the hit events bites me now because i set all physics to false at the end.
But i already have a solution in mind with filling an array(TMap) with all what should not reset and stay as physic. A little complicated but in the end this is just a loop function.
I only use the upperarm_l for this test, so no matter what will be hit it is always this bone. Not perfect but this is more how the colliders for the belly l/r/m setup.
Co deving on another project featuring good ole Zombies. Dismemberment is a feature. Now the moment of truth is hear, I’m stumped. Glad your discussing this topic.
Cool i wish you luck with this @TechLord . And if i can help i will try. Not sure how much i can help because what i do seems to be a really unique approach to this.
Here is a pretty old test i did (one of the first tests i recordet). You can see there how the physic animations get triggered. You cant see this in the game currently because i let the common zombies get stopped on hit with less health (it is there but only slightly notable because it is only for a little vatiation to the animations). This is more for heavier enemies then.
Clear to see at 0.28.
And here i redo the PhaT for a more natural look after breaking. I also tested at the end how good the RND for the head gets triggered.
Edit:
Here is a first model for the inner gore. Not sure about how to display big/small intestine a good way. So i just try something not realistic but also not to far away.
This could be some sort of base model. Based on this you could build variations where you would see less flesh but the hearth for example. Just playing around with the possibilitys at the moment.
wow they get terrifying in a good way when they are so fast. Immediately makes me target the torso or knees just to stop them from running :). Also that head popping off clean like a bird head is just magic.
Very difficult question, I think you should try to get away with the least detail possible, because when you start adding all the organs and stuff it’s really easy to notice when things look “off”. For example, when you shoot the torso with a handgun and expect a few bleeding holes you get a hole the size of a cannonball, but all the ribs are still intact. The more detail the more gore visuals would have to differ for various impact types which adds a ton of complexity. I think you can hide a lot with clothes and by just swapping textures in less detailed areas. If you do wanna go all the way, with a hole that size all organs just drop out of the zombie .
Yes i think in wider areas making them faster would also give a more arcade feeling. And this fun look if you use phys animation works the best way without triggered hit animations.
Good point thank you @Roy_Wierer.Seda145, i noticed yesterday myself going for a more realistic way is a ton of work. And even worse there are so much possibilitys what can happen with a single impact, it is just to much to consider.
The canon ball in the belly as you mentiont is a very good example for this. Most what i do with this makes from an realistic point of view no sence. This is also the reason why i dont use the pop off head anymore, maybe i should put it bak in and also make it random (or based on weapon force) if you dismember complete or only shoot of the flesh.
It was never meant to be very realistic as i started it. Just want to make it clear to see and fun to watch.
Here is something else i tried. Not sure if the hearth is good to see but the point it is to see makes also not really sence. I am just a little limited with the system i build because it is not dynamic.
The seems also look very strange i need to find a way to avoid this more.
But in the end … hey it is a game with zombies and demons, so how realistic can this be. This just needs to be a fun experiance in the end.
And as i myself play such games often just to have fun while watching gore effects, this is the reason for me taking so much time and play around with all what i could do with it. But also sometimes is less just more. Seeing this with every impact would also get boring if you dont have enough different models to display. I need a clean base where i can build the rest of.
Like the headshot. As i use it, i can build endless ammount of variations and this only take about one hour to finish one head model because i have a base to use that works very good.
Edit:
Still not perfect but works better, it seems like the biggest problem is the color gap between the mesh and the blood mask. Not sure how to handle this right now. Maybe getting rid of the spec from the blood mask would help.
I don’t see a real problem unless you want the white body to blend more with the hole in the torso? Maybe it’s because the zombies have very clean white bodies? XD. Adding some detail texture randomization or adding clothes (since they also wear pants) might blend it in a bi tmore.
Actually this all gave me a very new idea you might wanna play with. It would certainly blend the damage visuals.
Bullet impact creates a blood / hole decal on the body. The decal texture can use alpha too so you can look through the skin at the mesh behind it.
Bullet impact / damage counts towards a damage multiplier per body part (say 5 hits on the leg grants extra damage), at which point the skin and muscle blow off, or you get the hole in the torso.
It is more about the attached damage mesh. I guess it could be a “me” problem. I try to make it as perfect as possible. The problem with perfection is that you can never have this really. The only thing what happends is you would never finish something because you will always find something you want to change.
I like this idea, thank @Roy_Wierer.Seda145 you for this suggestion. I think the new House of the Dead use this somehow a similar way (did not play it, i like the look of the older ones i own much more).
I tryed to use decals at the beginning ,but could not figure out how to make this work and look good.
This way i would need to put a complete skelleton inside to model. As it is now i only have the bones in there and not the middle part with all.
I build the UV´s with something like this in mind already so i have space to put them into there also. Would just be more polys, i need to testing how much polys a single SK model would end up with. Mostly you dont have more then 5-8 enemies on screen at the same time. Feels like it would not be about the polys in the end if it would be around 2-5k more. It is more about the very heavy and complex material i use for them (wich are already in use). So maybe not much performance impact with this at all.
I think this would work as i dont use a approach where you kill the pixel around the impact and destroy all inside the “capsule” for example. This would also destroy the model inside. Mix a few systems togehter sound kinda hard to do because of this.
Thank you @Ordnas006 , i played and loved all this games also (still today at PS3 with gun).
Edit:
I need to think how to test a better gore system and as this means i would redo also all enemy models i will go back to this after the weekend.
So i started to rebuild older models to Nanite and test how a more realistic approach would look like. Just to do something else to relax without much thinking .
Here is a first result of a model with two sides and a texture from Quixel Bridge (no normal used), seems like the enemies also work within realistic environments.
Wow this is a awesome system. Thank you @TechLord for sharing this . Even if they (of course) dont really explain to much how this works. And the best about it … it uses UE so you know it can be done.
They key moment for me and the pice i was missing is is one simple word “deforming”. It sounds so obviously and easy, but i just did not see it.
Even if this means to redo half of the system it would be worth it. Not only it looks much better but it also would save time as the way i do it i need to paint a lot of mask textures for each different pice like pants and tops. This would cut the cost of the shader to 1/3 a least.
This motivated me a lot to get back to this and try to find out if i can do this myself.
Glad to help. In spare time, I’m resuming R&D on this subject. Revisiting some of older experiments {1,2} and Picked up a few new Marketplace packs {1,2}. I speculate a combination of techniques, mesh layers, and animations will be employed to pull of something cool and performant.
I was looking also. What i found in the marketplace was the same, the first of your link sounds not bad, and the second one i read a while ago this is not really procedural as stated, you can see it use only the standart bones. Maybe it works anyway, i dont know.
2 more things i found. The first is also something from the marketplace Sk deform, must be at some point a free of the month, because i have it in my lib already.
I just dont want to use someone else work (if it is an engine plugin) because i dont have control over it and it could be much harder to use it and even worse update what you do. But i will have a closer look if and how this works.
The second one is more of interest for me UE Deformer graph. I will read this and all further informations about this tomorrow.
After testing almost the whole day what i can do with the system i have right now i noticed i cant really use this deforming for the meshes.
I dont think this would work very well with this game because of the point system i have in place.
What i want to do is the follow (and as it is at the moment):
Points for each part you dismember from the body (more part equals more points and higher multiplier).
Fast pace decisions „risk vs reward“. Shoot another part for more points or kill for safety.
Only getting points one time for each part…
Clear to see if you „dismebert“ a certain part of the body (in this case just rip the flesh of the body).
To see this all with just watching at the screen (enemies).
Would this deforming look better? Yes of course, this would look much better, but i think you would never be able to see good enough if you still get points from this part.
I thought also about that i could display just the numbers of the points at the hitted parts, but after the displaying is gone you could no clear to identify if you already get the points for this parts.
This is one of the reasons why i do so much unrealistic display of the holes in the body for example. It is just much better to see it this way.
I did this test and watched it over and over again. And i was thinking how to use the deforming. With this you would hit the arm for example and it would look almost the same as it is right now. But you would never know if you get the points from this.
I would love to hear if someone have another idea or just an opinion about this. I am a little stuck with this. At this point it feels like to archive what i want to do is best to do the way i use it right now.
I don’t really get why shooting a bodypart only gives points the first time, I’d totally not notice that. If it’s not entirely dismembered I’d just think I’m getting points for shooting one in the knee until it drops down on the ground, which I’d do any time something comes running at me. Parts to shoot are usually a tactical decision unless something is so hard to hit you just got to go for the torso.
My first time seeing UE Deformer Graph. Thank You. Ill look deeper into it maybe useful for real-time pseudo morphtargets, damage, and Pseudo Cloth Physics for Superman Cape. Unfortunately, no takers on my Paid Job so ill give it a go myself.
The given points are just for shooting the flesh of, this was the idea behind this. But as i read this i notice myself this is a very strange approach to give points only once. That said … I would also shoot till the dismembering happend because getting points then makes more sence.
At the moment i try to find a better way. Maybe two phases. First: shooting the flesh of and break the bones, Second: simple dismembering the part. As i build this it sounds so good to me, but it is really nothing that work well the more i think about it.
Still testing if flesh and/or dismembering only give points. But this is the most obvius way to see you dont get more points, simply because there is nothing more to shoot at
@TechLord the problem i have at the moment is how i will use this all togehter, deforming sounds perfect but as you only need 2-3 shoots at max normaly to kill a zombie. You would never really see this even if i can make it work. I think i should stick with the total unrealistic but clear to see hitpoints.
I get some feedback about this and what people like the most is the headshots. Everbody love aiming the head in such games. I need to find a bridge between the gamemodes, isnt as easy as i thought.
Doing both and make what i have and then the deforming on top would end up in a nighmare to keep track and i guess also with performance.
But i think this happens if you change to often what you do. But i will test this more to see if it can be done at least (with my knowledge of course). Would work great with a first/third person game later then where you can take your time to inspect this close.
After finishing the test for the 2 phase dismembering i have in mind, i will update this post with a video how this looks then.
This makes the most sense to me. In addition there are more things to make a player aware of the effects of what they are doing especially when the focus of a game mode is about points. Some older games played “funny” noises or a bullet "wheeze"when not hitting a target, or an impact sound when hitting one properly. Or call of duty, shows those hitmarks on hit. An entirely different one but take a look at DuoLingo it gives constant feedback on how people are learning a language in the form of goals such as time challenges or accuracy. I’d not show people a popup with such thing all the time, maybe once at the end of a level, but you can give audio / visual feedback when things happen that are important to the game mode. Getting an insane combo? let the crowd cheer (RockSmith) or put the combo widget on fire. Getting a high accuracy? Give a sniper “award” while playing. Getting multiple kills in a short time? shout multikill (unreal tournament)! Besides that it would sort of teach the player what is important in a game mode, it is also very motivating. It can build tension or give the feeling of reward.
Thank you @Roy_Wierer.Seda145 , i love your sugesstions. This approach would also give a much more arcade feeling to the game. I was just playing “Deadstorm Pirates”, this is almost like you describe a few things. Very arcade and rewarding approach.
At the moment i redo the hit system to fit the needs more (extendet the enum and put a few bones (PhAT colliders) together). I also have new functions in place to select an easy way now how to break the bones correct, destroy colliders from PhAT if needet and also to trigger Niagra systems at the right point and different sound/animations functions even if not in use now and more.
Just as always looks easy at the first view, but getting complicated to archive good results with. Seems like it will take a few more days to show a video with good close to final results.
. Even if they (of course) dont really explain to much how this works. And the best about it … it uses UE so you know it can be done.
