I remembered I had monster console tools ( which gives some console commands as buttons) so I installed that and found under physics that it said cloth was 59 ms. So I have removed all test skeletal mesh actors I had hanging around in my level and in 5.3 in the same view / window as before it is now something like 80 fps and 12ms in pie, which is a lot more like. I guess unreal 5.3 doesnt like cloth or something ?? Anyway thank you for your help