[SUPPORT] Advanced Turn Based Tile Toolkit

[Monokkel]

Hello Fabry,

I'm not sure exactly what you mean. When you say walk do you mean a pawn/unit? And by not attaching do you mean it does not automatically snap to the grid? Are you using a fresh version of ATBTT without any modifications? I don't see any reason why this should happen. Is it the latest version of ATBTT and Unreal Engine? If so, can you tell me the steps I need to reproduce it?

[Monokkel]

I have an open question to anyone reading this thread about units taking up multiple tiles.

I'm working on adding this feature for the next update and I've found a solution I'm pretty happy with. However it only works with units that take up an equal number of tiles in the X and Y axes (2*2, 3*3 etc.) and not units that cover rectangular areas (2*3, 4*2 etc.). I can try to find a way to work this in, but this would take time, make pathfinding quite a bit slower to be able to account for rotation and would require some way for the player to input the desired end rotation when selecting a target tile. In addition I might have to rework unit rotation during movement to avoid units from clipping through terrain. I'm leaning towards not adding this, but if there are several developers in need of this I might reconsider. If so I want to know of other grid-based TBS computer games that use units occupying an uneven number of tiles so I can figure out how they solve some of the problems I'm facing. If anyone knows of a game that solves this in a good way, please let me know!

[kevdotward]

Hi Monokkel. Personally I'd be happy with 2*2 or similar and can imagine the difficulties with calculating the rotation of units that aren't equally sized in X and Y. From memory I think XCom Apocalypse had multi-tile units, but I can't recall whether they were all 2*2s. The earlier versions of XCom also stored the direction of the unit and there was an AP cost for changing which way you faced (not something I necessarily miss!), so that might be helpful to look at?

Have you found a way for this to work with hex grids, or is this limited to square grids only?

EDIT: Actually I've just checked and the Multiworm did indeed have a 2*1 tile coverage. I seem to remember some minor bugs / interesting features with how it moved though - at times it would appear that the worm took up 4 tiles when it was changing direction through a diagonal.

[Monokkel]

Thanks, Kev. I think 2*1 would be a lot easier than say 2*3, as you could simply use regular pathfinding and have half the body trail behind on the previous tile. This would cause issues with diagonal movement on square grids, though, which is why I assume they take up 2*2 tiles when moving diagonally. I would need to set up some hybrid system, in that case, but I think that is something I could add on top of what I've already got at some later point.

I just recalled that Heroes of might and magic II and III had units taking up 2*1 tiles, but this is pretty simple since they always face left/right and never rotate. I'm having trouble finding a TBS computer game with multi-tile units that take up an unequal number of tiles where both dimensions are higher than one tile. It seems like Card Hunter uses such large units in older screenshots of the game (might just be mock-ups), but I'm not able to find a gameplay video showing it in action. In all videos I can find, large units take up 2*2 tiles.

Descent and some editions of D&D are board games/pnp rpg's that use asymmetrically large units, but they can leverage the processing power of the human brain to figure things out from a simple set of rules.

[kevdotward]

Yeah I must admit I couldn't think of many tile based games that do this. Those with large units that I can recall frequently make the actual tiles larger so a normal sized unit has quite a lot of space around it whilst a larger until fills the tile. You've said many times in this thread that the best way to implement multi-tile units will depend on game mechanics and be different from project to project - I think you're right.

If I was utilising large units I think I'd look for some way to have large tiles and then think about allowing more than one smaller unit to occupy a single tile. That seems to me a potentially easier way to go about this.

[Monokkel]

I'm actually come pretty far in implementing multi-tile units already, so there will be a solution to this implemented in the next update. It will not be ideal for all games, but I think it should do the trick for many. However it only really works with units taking up equal amounts of tiles in both axes (is there a shorthand for saying this. Really cumbersome to type :P ). That's why I've asked here in the thread. If games using units with irregular sizes are very uncommon I figure there is good reason for this, and I will make it a low priority.

[antsonthetree]

Hi Monokkel,

Equal amounts of tiles in both directions could be shortened to NxN units. Odd sized tiles could be MxN units. NxN could maybe be done by moving the center of the unit to tile intersections vs tile centers, but not sure if that will work for you. I have no idea on how to do it in a hex grid scenario. And MxN units... well I'm glad it's you that has to figure that out and not me.

Jake

[Monokkel]

Thanks Jake, NxN is much easier I've actually figured out how to do NxN units already and it is working pretty well. It is MxN I haven't been able to do yet, and I will probably be skipping this, at least for now.

[Envieous]

I have an open question to anyone reading this thread about units taking up multiple tiles.

I'm working on adding this feature for the next update and I've found a solution I'm pretty happy with. However it only works with units that take up an equal number of tiles in the X and Y axes (2*2, 3*3 etc.) and not units that cover rectangular areas (2*3, 4*2 etc.). I can try to find a way to work this in, but this would take time, make pathfinding quite a bit slower to be able to account for rotation and would require some way for the player to input the desired end rotation when selecting a target tile. In addition I might have to rework unit rotation during movement to avoid units from clipping through terrain. I'm leaning towards not adding this, but if there are several developers in need of this I might reconsider. If so I want to know of other grid-based TBS computer games that use units occupying an uneven number of tiles so I can figure out how they solve some of the problems I'm facing. If anyone knows of a game that solves this in a good way, please let me know!

I would be interested in seeing this feature happen too.

[Monokkel]

I would be interested in seeing this feature happen too.

Units that take up irregular (M*N) tiles greater than 2*1, you mean? I'm leaning towards not implementing this. At least until I've seen one example of a computer game that has done this well in the past. My searches have turned up empty so far.

[Envieous]

Units that take up irregular (M*N) tiles greater than 2*1, you mean? I'm leaning towards not implementing this. At least until I've seen one example of a computer game that has done this well in the past. My searches have turned up empty so far.

Oh, no, just units that take up more than one square. I didn't read the post very well at 10pm.

[Monokkel]

Oh, no, just units that take up more than one square. I didn't read the post very well at 10pm.

Hehe, no problem. Here is a screenshot of the WIP build. Still a long way to go, but the basics are down. Displayed tiles in move range do not correctly correspond to the actual tiles that can be moved to yet for one, but navigation works fine, even on multi-level grids:

[jparker4]

I'm actually come pretty far in implementing multi-tile units already, so there will be a solution to this implemented in the next update. It will not be ideal for all games, but I think it should do the trick for many. However it only really works with units taking up equal amounts of tiles in both axes (is there a shorthand for saying this. Really cumbersome to type :P ). That's why I've asked here in the thread. If games using units with irregular sizes are very uncommon I figure there is good reason for this, and I will make it a low priority.

I see NxN mentioned, but a simple english word would be equilateral, meaning sides of equal length

Thank you for your comments on multiplayer BTW, I'm excited to see what others have come up with and what you might implement in the future!

And I can't believe you are reading my mind with the multi-cell implementation!!! I was agonizing on how to figure this out or design around the limitation. You rock!!

I will add my 2 cents that equilateral unit sizes should allow 90% of what developers would need for multi-cell units. And if it means a much sooner update, I say leave rectangular unit sizes for a future update if it is requested enough. You'd have to have some really long and skinny units to not be able to just put them in an equilateral cell and call it good. Some extra space on the sides of the 3D model isn't so terrible.

I am in the middle of a couple projects but I am counting the days until I have time to dive into UE4 and ATBTT properly! It's a treat to see how much it is being updated, I will have to hurry up or you'll have a full game already made!

[Monokkel]

Well, my plan was always to make a game, but I god sidetracked improving the toolkit... for a couple of years so far. I enjoy this sort of development, though. Making a framework for other people gives me an excuse to obsess over adding features and improving performance, which is an easy way to never get anything released if you're making an actual game. I might begin more focused work towards a game of my own after completing the next update, though. Features will continue to trickle down into the toolkit from this development too, of course.

I've updated the "planned features" list in the first post to reflect the planned features for next update. Though there are just two major features (and I will try really hard not to begin working on more until these are done), they are both very tricky. Multiplayer in particular requires a restructuring of parts of the toolkit, and I'm using the opportunity to look through stuff I coded a long time ago and cleaning up/simplifying stuff.

[HeadClot]

Hey [MENTION=4318]Monokkel[/MENTION] - Since you are going to go back and restructure parts of the kit.

Make use of components. This would allow us to make use of functionality we need and exclude stuff we do not need. It will also save allot of headaches due to the logic being modular.

I am really looking forward towards the Large creature support and Networked Multiplayer.

Keep up the amazing work,
HeadClot