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    #16
    One thing to take into consideration, is that the majority of purchases on the asset store will most like be made by hobbyist developers. With most likely the majority of those users, never shiping a commercial product. So how does the per title license work for them?

    Or what exactly counts as a single title? If someone releases a expansion pack for a game a few months after the original game was released. Do they need another license for that expansion pack. Personally I think that having per title licenses would just be too complicated for all parties, and with no easy way to track what item has been used in what product.

    If the Unity asset store is anything to go by then as I said the majority of purchases will actually be made by small teams or hobbyist developers, and the prices will need to be kept low to tempt them.

    Most decently budgeted titles would want to have exclusive rights for most of their assets anyway. So neither licenses would suit them. In fact from just looking at the comments on Steam, a game that is noticed to have a lot of art from the Unity asset store in it, is looked at in a negative way.

    The clause about having to keep the items updated for all future versions, on the face of it looks like it could put a lot of people off from making code or blueprint assets. However one of the big issues with the Unity Asset store, and one that gets endless complaints is that so many assets don't work with newer versions of Unity. With the developers long ago having stopped updating them.

    Still that clause will make myself think twice before I did release anything on the asset store, unless I was sure it had a good chance of making enough money to pay for all that future work. Also what about free items that are released. How many people are going to release free code/blueprint assets, knowing that each month they could have to spend who knows how many months making sure it works with each new version?
    Last edited by MattW; 08-18-2014, 08:54 AM.

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      #17
      Originally posted by FTC View Post
      Despite the fact that the named prices are meant as examples
      Yes. The prices are an example but the ratio between them is the heart of the poll. $50 vs. $100 would be a completely different question.

      Originally posted by FTC View Post
      So while you won't see the price being 6 times higher...
      Which is what I said. Nothing else.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by MattW View Post
        The clause about having to keep the items updated for all future versions, on the face of it looks like it could put a lot of people off from making code or blueprint assets. However one of the big issues with the Unity Asset store, and one that gets endless complaints is that so many assets don't work with newer versions of Unity. With the developers long ago having stopped updating them.

        Still that clause will make myself think twice before I did release anything on the asset store, unless I was sure it had a good chance of making enough money to pay for all that future work. Also what about free items that are released. How many people are going to release free code/blueprint assets, knowing that each month they could have to spend who knows how many months making sure it works with each new version?
        Exactly! Not even Epic say that all projects will work the next version. They say that they will give their best to do that, but that is it. Why they want to force us to do what they don't? Are we going to try to make it work with every version that comes out? Of course yes. But we can guarantee that? Of course not! No one can!
        BASIC version can also be bought on Marketplace.
        PRO version can be bought on my site only.
        www.3dalex.com

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          #19
          At this point I tend to agree to the "for life" license for everything you buy, the other possible types seem to be more hassle than it is worth.

          However, I do not agree to the "free, forever" update policy. Yes, Unity's marketplace has a problem with it, but they do not have a proper way of controlling versions. Epic's marketplace already pops up big warnings if I want to download something and do not have the correct version of the engine installed. The same system could be used when it comes to checking compatibility for user created assets.

          I think a better solution would be to pay for a product and have the current and all previous versions for life, but pay a small fee if you want the updated versions. As epic plans it assets will have to have source files attached anyway, so the user can always do the updating themselves and only had to pay if a new version would contain big updates (e.g. new features, or addtional assets), or if they didn't want to do the conversion themselves.

          In the end this is how most software is sold, you get the software 'as is' when you purchase it and have to pay when you want a new version. Epic does it, so why shouldn't we?

          greetings,
          FTC
          Last edited by FTC; 08-18-2014, 10:14 AM.
          Adventure Kit: UDK / UE4
          Buy the Kit: Marketplace
          Scan FX: Marketplace
          www.freetimestudio.net
          [Youtube][Twitter][Facebook]

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            #20
            Originally posted by MattW View Post
            One thing to take into consideration, is that the majority of purchases on the asset store will most like be made by hobbyist developers. With most likely the majority of those users, never shiping a commercial product. So how does the per title license work for them?
            I think you're probably right about this. I'm thinking about offering two levels, a base level that would be appropriate for a hobbyist developer in the marketplace at a hobbyist price ($10 to $25), with an upgraded level for small developer, indie developers and large developer with appropriate pricing at my website. Coherent Labs does something like this for their Coherent products. But that's mute until Epic get plugins figured out.

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              #21
              Originally posted by FTC View Post
              At this point I tend to agree to the "for life" license for everything you buy, the other possible types seem to be more hassle than it is worth.

              However, I do not agree to the "free, forever" update policy. Yes, Unity's marketplace has a problem with it, but they do not have a proper way of controlling versions. Epic's marketplace already pops up big warnings if I want to download something and do not have the correct version of the engine installed. The same system could be used when it comes to checking compatibility for user created assets.

              I think a better solution would be to pay for a product and have the current and all previous versions for life, but pay a small fee if you want the updated versions. As epic plans it assets will have to have source files attached anyway, so the user can always do the updating themselves and only had to pay if a new version would contain big updates (e.g. new features, or addtional assets), or if they didn't want to do the conversion themselves.

              In the end this is how most software is sold, you get the software 'as is' when you purchase it and have to pay when you want a new version. Epic does it, so why shouldn't we?

              greetings,
              FTC
              I think this idea is super awesome and works excellent with Epic policy about prices and content.

              It allows to have average price for developer and users + reward for developers who support their products after initial release + discount for people who already bought previous edition
              Last edited by zeOrb; 08-18-2014, 10:54 AM.
              SuperGrid: Marketplace Page | Feedback Thread | Demo | Website
              Level design and prototyping for newbies

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                #22
                Originally posted by zeOrb View Post
                I don't like that "per-title" vibe. Extremely artificial way to crank up salary imho :/
                Ok Pay once, but pay me royalties from you gross(!!) revenue. Fine by me.
                https://github.com/iniside/ActionRPGGame - Action RPG Starter kit. Work in Progress. You can use it in whatever way you wish.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by FTC View Post
                  The system currently in the works by Epic is one of the above, to be exact it is "Pay 300 $ or more and have it for life?". Of course the prices are examples.

                  greetings,
                  FTC
                  Actually, it is it not. The poll offers a false alternative fallacy in which you either get it cheap for 1 title or extremely expensive for life, so it forces you to pick option 3. It is a biased poll and you can't get good data from it (which is a shame as this could have been an interesting debate)

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                    #24
                    I don't think it is a fallacy. Most software is tiered one way or another, be it team size, supported platforms or per title and I do believe that prices for life would be much higher than per title.

                    That being said I have already given up on the idea of life long vs. per title but instead suggested an alternative. I also believe I looked at this from the wrong perspective, most marketplace users will probably be individuals rather than big teams.

                    greetings,
                    FTC
                    Adventure Kit: UDK / UE4
                    Buy the Kit: Marketplace
                    Scan FX: Marketplace
                    www.freetimestudio.net
                    [Youtube][Twitter][Facebook]

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by FTC View Post
                      At this point I tend to agree to the "for life" license for everything you buy, the other possible types seem to be more hassle than it is worth.

                      However, I do not agree to the "free, forever" update policy. Yes, Unity's marketplace has a problem with it, but they do not have a proper way of controlling versions. Epic's marketplace already pops up big warnings if I want to download something and do not have the correct version of the engine installed. The same system could be used when it comes to checking compatibility for user created assets.

                      I think a better solution would be to pay for a product and have the current and all previous versions for life, but pay a small fee if you want the updated versions. As epic plans it assets will have to have source files attached anyway, so the user can always do the updating themselves and only had to pay if a new version would contain big updates (e.g. new features, or addtional assets), or if they didn't want to do the conversion themselves.

                      In the end this is how most software is sold, you get the software 'as is' when you purchase it and have to pay when you want a new version. Epic does it, so why shouldn't we?

                      greetings,
                      FTC
                      We want to have a great experience for the people purchasing content and part of that means not having to worry about upgrading to the latest engine, so that's why we want developers to have an obligation to support their customers. Fortunately most assets will continue to function without trouble in future versions of the engine, so models, textures, sounds, and the like shouldn't be a burden for developers. Blueprints and eventually code plugins on the other hand, depending on their nature, may need tweaks to support the latest version of the engine. If developers choose to not upgrade their assets for the latest version of the engine, and we find blocking issues with it, we'll most likely remove it for sale to new users until an update can be sorted out. And to be clear, folks who have already purchased the content will be able to still download anything they've purchased for previous versions of the engine.

                      Charging for updates is a bit tricky - if it's a significant update then I imagine people will be okay paying for the latest version, especially if it contains new functionality. On the other hand if as a user I'm having to pay for the same functionality again then I can imagine that being quite frustrating. That being said, we're iterating on this as we learn more and more, so please keep the feedback coming. Thanks!

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Ray Davis View Post
                        We want to have a great experience for the people purchasing content and part of that means not having to worry about upgrading to the latest engine, so that's why we want developers to have an obligation to support their customers. ... Blueprints and eventually code plugins on the other hand, depending on their nature, may need tweaks to support the latest version of the engine. If developers choose to not upgrade their assets for the latest version of the engine, and we find blocking issues with it, we'll most likely remove it for sale to new users until an update can be sorted out.
                        What about a great experience for the people that are selling as well? Keep just thinking about the buyers... Then good luck trying to find good products to sell, from good sellers.
                        Also, you guys don't know what you want. Since I am developing a Blueprint system that I was plannig to sell on Marketplace, and had to make it work with the lastest version, right? Right! Ok, I did that, and everything stopped working with the latest version, because somes nodes were not migrating right. I posted this on AnswerHub, and today one of you guys answered me with this:

                        Hi Alex3d,

                        While developing a project I would suggest not upgrading unless it is absolutely necessary. If any changes and updates from one version to the next were made to the nodes you were using, sections of your blueprints could change, shift, or even be deleted.
                        With that and reading what Ray Davis said, if that does not change, I won't put my system to sell on marketplace.
                        Also, If you remove a product because it does not support the lastest version of the UE engine, you are forgetting those people that also do not update their project like crazy, and are developing on the version that they choose.
                        And, of course all the seller will try to upgrade their products to work with the lastest engine, because a seller wants to sell. If his product supports the lastest version, chances are that he will more. But removing the product because it doesn't support the lastest version, sorry man, but is a wrong approach!

                        Look at this! A good example of how this should work!
                        This is from my extension products page inside Opencart.
                        Here I can upload, change, or remove my own products. And I can set its compatibility with their system.




                        And here is what the buyer sees. He can choose which version he needs to download. He buys a license and choose which version and he can download any off those versions. The only "OBLIGATION" that the seller has, is to make it to work with the versions that he says ( selecting those checkboxes ) it will work with.
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by Alex3d; 08-18-2014, 07:17 PM.
                        BASIC version can also be bought on Marketplace.
                        PRO version can be bought on my site only.
                        www.3dalex.com

                        Comment


                          #27
                          None of the above. Sellers set the price to match the return. Done. Simple for buyers, simple for sellers. Equitable for all.

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                            #28
                            Btw for the "Price" part..

                            How about another Option?
                            Like - the Licence is paid for example 30$ and can be used for lifetime... but as soon as the project using that product within his own Project and making money, he has too pay another fine... lets say those 300$...
                            This way Single Persons that just want to play around with the Unrealengine dont have to worry about some Numbers that are crazy, while People that earn money with those projects can afford the extra fine without a problem...

                            Lets say 30$ to play around with the Product.
                            As soon as the Game makes whatever 10.000$, they have to pay those additional 300$...

                            Epic could watch this while watching the money they would get from this 10.000$ ... (and payed with the 30% theyll get from the 300$...) i guess with some scripts most of this could be controlled automatically...

                            Would that be perfect? Na... you could still reverse engineer those scripts, make your own etc... but that would be a problem at all...
                            But it would deliver more comfort to everybody (except Epic maybe... they would have a new part they have to take care of... and it would take some time i guess... ) to deliver a fair License for both sides...

                            (Fair initial price -> if used to make a defined amount of money (for example those 10.000$ etc... should be defined at the marketplace "30$ now, 300$ more if you reach xxx.xxx$ total" ) the author of the product gets a fair bonus -> Epic too all sides are happy)

                            Sorry at this point for the poor English.. ^^ Hope i could explain my idea... if not just ask ^^

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                              #29
                              Oh for crying out loud.

                              Can't live with the guidelines set up your own shop and and make up any licensing terms and conditions you wish.

                              Or

                              Wait for the marketplace to open and sort it's self out.

                              The shop is not even open yet and we have half a dozen variations on individual packages yet no one knows if there is going to be more than one of anything made available.

                              Your merchants and will have to at some point compete and what you think what you can get will be under cut by others looking for the quick buck.

                              In a few months licensing schemes will be a moot point.
                              Clarke's third law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
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                              Urban Terror https://www.urbanterror.info/home/

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                                #30
                                Thanks for sharing the screenshots. The upcoming Marketplace update has support for a "version compatibility matrix" similar in spirit to what's shown, so that sellers can provide more than one file, with each file listing a range of compatible Unreal Engine versions. When downloading an asset, you can choose which version you want, defaulting to the latest.

                                With that infrastructure in place for supporting backwards-compatibility, that leaves the policy question of whether assets remain listed for sale when the seller isn't actively maintaining them to be compatible with the latest version. Our policy is to remove obsolete assets from sale, to avoid buyer confusion, and to minimize abandoned-product barriers that prevent developers from upgrading to the latest version of the engine.

                                There will definitely be code and asset projects that are worth sharing but don't necessarily warrant an ongoing professional-level support commitment. For those, I recommend sharing freely via GitHub, Forums, Dropbox links, etc.

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