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"Battle Royale" conflicts with an Epic IP

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  • replied
    Hey toxingaming i buyed your template at gumroad with paypal but i don't got the download link or the receipe email your template would help me a lot because i m working on a advanced pubg with lot s of useful new functions in my plan your template was the base for my project so i really need it i m not so pro in programming i m a good designer and 3d modeler and i know enough of blueprints to change it how i need it pls pls answer me i m trying to contact you and gumroad for hours and didn't got anything i m working on a small 2 man indie team and our budget is close to 0

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Unreal_Josh View Post
    Hi everyone,

    It is not our policy to restrict people from using Battle Royale. Using the term Battle Royale is fine because it has emerged as a video game genre.

    The marketplace team has a longstanding policy that we won’t allow content on the marketplace if it’s listed in a way that is going to be confusing for buyers. “Paragon Rocks” would be an issue, for example, if we thought that people would think this was Epic created content.

    However, we also let people use genre descriptors in their packs (Deathmatch, CTF, etc). I think this is the first time those two things have intersected, which is what caused the issue. It was the intent of the reviewer to recommend a change to the name in order to avoid confusion, but not require it. However, that doesn’t come across in the review, so we’ll update the review feedback to clearly flag when there’s a recommendation.

    I would like to point out that the pack was not sent back to the seller specifically because of its use of “Battle Royale” in the title. The seller received feedback for other issues, and we’re working with him to have a successful release.

    I apologize to ToxinGaming and our community that we’ve created this confusion and concern, and we’ll work to do better next time.

    Thanks,
    Josh
    Thank you for the update. All I wanted was some clarification. Yes, I am fixing my submission for the other issues.

    Thanks again for looking into it.

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  • replied
    Hi everyone,

    It is not our policy to restrict people from using Battle Royale. Using the term Battle Royale is fine because it has emerged as a video game genre.

    The marketplace team has a longstanding policy that we won’t allow content on the marketplace if it’s listed in a way that is going to be confusing for buyers. “Paragon Rocks” would be an issue, for example, if we thought that people would think this was Epic created content.

    However, we also let people use genre descriptors in their packs (Deathmatch, CTF, etc). I think this is the first time those two things have intersected, which is what caused the issue. It was the intent of the reviewer to recommend a change to the name in order to avoid confusion, but not require it. However, that doesn’t come across in the review, so we’ll update the review feedback to clearly flag when there’s a recommendation.

    I would like to point out that the pack was not sent back to the seller specifically because of its use of “Battle Royale” in the title. The seller received feedback for other issues, and we’re working with him to have a successful release.

    I apologize to ToxinGaming and our community that we’ve created this confusion and concern, and we’ll work to do better next time.

    Thanks,
    Josh

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  • replied
    Kind of expected it to be a misunderstanding to be honest... never be too quick to jump the gun!

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  • replied
    Tim Sweeney replied: https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/s...21636886106112

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  • replied
    Wow Epic. Seriously? I want to hear a word from Epic regarding this.
    Shouldn't Japanese book writer sue Epic as well in this case?



    ToxinGaming your inbox disabled?

    I have been waiting for your BR asset to be approved to purchase on UE4 marketplace only, due to personal preference of having it for easy reuse in future. However, just saw your thread today and it is quite disappointing sadly.
    Last edited by unrealjin; 09-27-2017, 05:14 AM.

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  • replied
    This is amazing

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  • replied
    This is amazing, to see Epic display such behavior after its being accused of similar from Bluehole. I thought the point of the motto was that we were all in this together not just here to give Epic a free lunch! My concern is this is just the beginning, that Epic will do similar to any title on UE4 that shows such success and their recent products show they arnt above going outside of UE4 community Gameloft style. Its so sad to see Epic, who we thought was our friend, treat its community with such disrespect, to act just like those big publishers they talk down about from their moral high ground of so called independence.

    I really hope you get this sorted and that its simply an error on the part of someone with a lack of understanding in the processes but with the pattern displayed by Epic (and Tencent) its hard to ignore this as a one off
    Last edited by MonsOlympus; 09-27-2017, 04:14 AM.

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  • replied
    Battle Royal is not IP'd to epic and this is so ridiculous. If this is not accepted by the marketplace team, I will be so disgusted.

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  • replied
    Hoping to see an explanation from Epic about this here. Sounds really upsetting.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by ToxinGaming View Post

    I understand your last sentence, and I am playing by their rules. Their rule in line item 4 in their review checklist says "Title does not contain any of the following: Epic, Unreal, Paragon, Fortnite". My title is "FPS Battle Royale Template". When they expand rules to cover other things without informing us, how can they impose them on us and expect us to not complain?

    I'm just trying to understand the sudden change in acceptance of my title. Without context, it looks like they released Fornite: Battle Royale and are now imposing a new rule without textual update due to possible competition that my template may cause to their IP because of the name of my template. How is that going to look to other developers? Are they going to rethink about using UE because at any point, Epic can release a game and force them to change their name due to IP conflicts, especially when naming is an important part of marketing? Who is going to understand that my product is a Battle Royale type game template without Battle Royale in the name? "Last Man Standing", to me, is too long of a descriptor and doesn't come with the concept of looting items that Battle Royale comes with. "BR", if I can even use that since it stands for Battle Royale, is not known by every single person to mean Battle Royale and will put two acronyms next to each other in the title which doesn't fit right to me.

    I understand that forcing a name change makes sense when the title makes no sense, doesn't describe the product enough, or is trademarked / IP-owned by someone else. But forcing a name change that accurately describes my product just because they so happened to release Fortnite: Battle Royale is upsetting, even if they have the right to do so.
    Again, this is only as it pertains to the marketplace. You can still use that name elsewhere on Gumroad, CGTrader, Cubebrush, etc. I'm not saying you shouldn't complain, nor am I defending Epic here for forcing you to rename. Simply saying that by using the marketplace of a private company such as Epic you agree to abide by their rules, provided you are using their marketplace. Elsewhere, you aren't required to rename your project.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by SE_JonF View Post

    I doubt they have that trademarked, and even if they did it'd be difficult to enforce. Think of Bethesda's failed attempt to sue a company for using the word Scrolls in their title.

    In terms of the marketplace though, while I agree it is a little over the top it is their right. Whether you released it a while ago, or tonight if they want to impose upon you a name change as a condition for using it they can. I fully agree with you about this, but just saying when it comes to a private company and their infrastructure (the marketplace) they set the rules and we play by them or choose not to play.
    I understand your last sentence, and I am playing by their rules. Their rule in line item 4 in their review checklist says "Title does not contain any of the following: Epic, Unreal, Paragon, Fortnite". My title is "FPS Battle Royale Template". When they expand rules to cover other things without informing us, how can they impose them on us and expect us to not complain?

    I'm just trying to understand the sudden change in acceptance of my title. Without context, it looks like they released Fornite: Battle Royale and are now imposing a new rule without textual update due to possible competition that my template may cause to their IP because of the name of my template. How is that going to look to other developers? Are they going to rethink about using UE because at any point, Epic can release a game and force them to change their name due to IP conflicts, especially when naming is an important part of marketing? Who is going to understand that my product is a Battle Royale type game template without Battle Royale in the name? "Last Man Standing", to me, is too long of a descriptor and doesn't come with the concept of looting items that Battle Royale comes with. "BR", if I can even use that since it stands for Battle Royale, is not known by every single person to mean Battle Royale and will put two acronyms next to each other in the title which doesn't fit right to me.

    I understand that forcing a name change makes sense when the title makes no sense, doesn't describe the product enough, or is trademarked / IP-owned by someone else. But forcing a name change that accurately describes my product just because they so happened to release Fortnite: Battle Royale is upsetting, even if they have the right to do so.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by ToxinGaming View Post

    Yeah, I confuse trademark and copyright all the time. They have a copyright on the game "Fortnite" itself. I don't see one for "Fortnite: Battle Royale". If it was "Fortnite: Battle Royale", I would understand not being able to use "Battle Royale" in my title and the confusion (if any) my title would cause in the marketplace. My best friend is a former IP lawyer, who now does software development. I have already sent details about this whole thing to him so I'll see what he has to say in terms of trademark, copyright, and IP.

    And that is fine about their right to request a name change. However, I don't understand why it comes 3 months after my first review and in my 3 previous reviews, there have been no problems with my title. If my project was passed and put on the marketplace before Fortnite's Battle Royale release, would they have forced me to change the name of my already released project? Have they forced the renaming of already released marketplace assets because of Epic IP in the past? This is all hypothetical and doesn't apply to my situation but is definitely something to think about. What if I released something called "Card Game Template"? Can I not have "Card" in the name because of "Cards" in Paragon? You might laugh at that question, but it is on the same lines when regarding my title.
    I doubt they have that trademarked, and even if they did it'd be difficult to enforce. Think of Bethesda's failed attempt to sue a company for using the word Scrolls in their title.

    In terms of the marketplace though, while I agree it is a little over the top it is their right. Whether you released it a while ago, or tonight if they want to impose upon you a name change as a condition for using it they can. I fully agree with you about this, but just saying when it comes to a private company and their infrastructure (the marketplace) they set the rules and we play by them or choose not to play.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by SE_JonF View Post
    You can't copyright a word or phrase such as battle Royale. At best you can trademark it but I doubt they did even that. Gotta love how epic wastes no time when they think a product will create confusion with their own products, but if it's something between two other sellers they couldn't care less.

    That being said, Epic is a private company and our use of their marketplace is at their discretion - like it or not. So while it really isn't fair of them to force you to rename, it is within their right to request that if you're going to use their marketplace. They can't however prevent you from using the name elsewhere, such as Gumroad, though as you aren't violating any trademarks by using that phrase in your project.
    Yeah, I confuse trademark and copyright all the time. They have a copyright on the game "Fortnite" itself. I don't see one for "Fortnite: Battle Royale". If it was "Fortnite: Battle Royale", I would understand not being able to use "Battle Royale" in my title and the confusion (if any) my title would cause in the marketplace. My best friend is a former IP lawyer, who now does software development. I have already sent details about this whole thing to him so I'll see what he has to say in terms of trademark, copyright, and IP.

    And that is fine about their right to request a name change. However, I don't understand why it comes 3 months after my first review and in my 3 previous reviews, there have been no problems with my title. If my project was passed and put on the marketplace before Fortnite's Battle Royale release, would they have forced me to change the name of my already released project? Have they forced the renaming of already released marketplace assets because of Epic IP in the past? This is all hypothetical and doesn't apply to my situation but is definitely something to think about. What if I released something called "Card Game Template"? Can I not have "Card" in the name because of "Cards" in Paragon? You might laugh at that question, but it is on the same lines when regarding my title.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by ToxinGaming View Post

    I did, that's why I put the twitter storm comment first. Guess I should have said gaming article. I'll change that.

    But is it really fair to me to have to change my template name just because they release a title with the "Battle Royale" term? What if other people wanted to make Battle Royale type gameplay for the marketplace? Now they are no longer allowed to use that term just because of Fortnite? Also, as previously stated, the game's name is "Fortnite", and is stated like that on the review checklist, not "Fortnite: Battle Royale".

    When you say Battle Royale in terms of video games (not movies or TV production like you mentioned) nowadays, you immediately think of PUBG, H1Z1, ARMA. And now you can add Fortnite to the list. You know that the term "Battle Royale" is a game mode, not the name of the actual game itself. So if Epic really did copyright "Battle Royale", I'm fine with changing my title, but I'm not going to bend out of my way because the term "Battle Royale" is so widely used nowadays and as soon as you read it, you should know what my project is about.
    You always have negative nancy's, and debbie downers with copyright, and then you have the truly originals that deserve to protect it. Epic could've used something different. I mean the compass, and parachute is kind of clonish/spoofish, and enough to make someone salty. Epic might have had to license, or get approval for battle royale. I don't know.
    Copyright law has it's own "Genre" of attorney's so go figure.
    Last edited by thadkinsjr; 09-26-2017, 09:21 PM.

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