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    Mouse Controls for EPIC

    Dear Epic.

    I have a suggestion for you in regards to mouse controls. You do have a mouse control option in your current product, Unreal Engine 4; I however have noticed a huge difference between your current mouse control code and the Source Engine.

    In the Source Engine, mouse controls are far superior than your inferior Unreal Engine coding. How do I know this? I have played with Both Insurgency & Unreal Engine games such as Ground Branch and there is a huge gap in between the two. In Insurgency which uses the Source Engine, you can hit a target from a long distance without struggling to get your scope on them especially if you have a magnified scope equipped. While in an Epic game such as Ground Branch it is very hard to hit a precise target, especially when you have a magnified scope equipped to your character.

    This has nothing to do with my frames and I have a 400$ Video card installed into my PC. I also have Razor Synapse and I don't even need it for a Source Engine game.

    Please implement their mouse coding technique into your next UE update to ensure a smoother experience for PC players and future games developed with Unreal Engine. Or at least have the option for different "older" mouse codes which where awesome!

    Thank you for your time and understanding.

    Jonathan
    Last edited by Jonathan87; 01-06-2016, 08:47 PM.

    #2
    Originally posted by Jonathan87 View Post
    In the Source Engine, mouse controls are far superior than your inferior Unreal Engine coding. How do I know this? I have played with Both Insurgency & Unreal Engine games such as Ground Branch and there is a huge gap in between the two. In Insurgency which uses the Source Engine, you can hit a target from a long distance without struggling to get your cross hairs on them especially if you have a magnified scope equipped. While in an Epic game such as Ground Branch it is very hard to hit a precise target, especially when you have a magnified scope equipped to your character.
    that makes no sense, the mouse controls in those games would have been implemented by the developers of the games and not the game engine, by that I mean the game developer would have set things like the sensitivity while zoomed..ect so the controls being better in a source engine game would have very little to do with engine and more to do with how the game developer sets the controls up and the preferences of the player.

    Comment


      #3
      In Insurgency which uses the Source Engine, you can hit a target from a long distance without struggling to get your cross hairs on them especially if you have a magnified scope equipped.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL1_ht1EdAU

      video made for holy war, yes
      but it show some ideas...

      Comment


        #4
        Some one doesnt have aiming skills? xD... if you need your computer to do the aiming... that in my times was called aimbot cheating!!!!! xD, guess if the original develop one for you, you cant call the others cheaters anymore xD.


        -----

        And I need to add from the video... you can make your players feel bada**... or without help and be able to hit they are really bada**, not they just feel they are bada** and dont notice our help xD... so yeah... xD
        Last edited by tyoc213; 01-02-2016, 06:24 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by smokey13 View Post
          that makes no sense, the mouse controls in those games would have been implemented by the developers of the games and not the game engine, by that I mean the game developer would have set things like the sensitivity while zoomed..ect so the controls being better in a source engine game would have very little to do with engine and more to do with how the game developer sets the controls up and the preferences of the player.
          It has nothing to do with preference of the player. I virtually have everything the same in Ground Branch and it acts like **** compared Insurgency mouse controls. It has nothing to do with my frames. I even have friends that can say the exact same thing about Epics crappy mouse rendering. It isn't just me. I invite you to download a game made from UE and then download Insurgency and you will see a huge difference in mouse performance. I can aim just fine in Insurgency but not in GB. I mean I can still aim but not as precisely. I have tried all mouse settings and fooled with DPI and other stuff but still get the same result. Bottom line Epics mouse coding is **** and they should adapt to Source Engine mouse coding techniques. I have had people tell me that they hate leaving some games made by the Source engine due to the fact of really smooth mouse controls.
          Last edited by Jonathan87; 01-06-2016, 04:08 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            @Jonathan87

            I don't understand the problem. And sadly I don't know the named games. So what's the actual problem?

            Is the mouse too fast? (Too high sens because of low mouse sense slider range. No separated sense settings for irons sight or scope)
            Does it lag ? (v-sync on)
            Does the hit box register incorrectly? (Crappy form)
            Does it take too long to register a hit? (If multiplayer, this may actually mean that the network code sucks. Bullets could also be actual projectiles that travel through 3D space)

            Are you talking about an aim assist? (Aim assist is turned off. Hidden aim assist)


            Smokey13 is still right, though. The most part of the mouse is implemented by the game devs, and not done by the engine. For example Square Enix failed twice to implement a simple mouse sense slider. In Tomb Raider (2013) and Nosgoth, you could reduce the mouse sense to the lowest, and even on a 3500DPI these games felt bit too fast.

            Comment


              #7
              @Jonathan87

              you sound like end user which dont know nothing.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by SouldomainTM View Post
                @Jonathan87

                I don't understand the problem. And sadly I don't know the named games. So what's the actual problem?

                Is the mouse too fast? (Too high sens because of low mouse sense slider range. No separated sense settings for irons sight or scope)
                Does it lag ? (v-sync on)
                Does the hit box register incorrectly? (Crappy form)
                Does it take too long to register a hit? (If multiplayer, this may actually mean that the network code sucks. Bullets could also be actual projectiles that travel through 3D space)

                Are you talking about an aim assist? (Aim assist is turned off. Hidden aim assist)


                Smokey13 is still right, though. The most part of the mouse is implemented by the game devs, and not done by the engine. For example Square Enix failed twice to implement a simple mouse sense slider. In Tomb Raider (2013) and Nosgoth, you could reduce the mouse sense to the lowest, and even on a 3500DPI these games felt bit too fast.
                I have Vsync turned off & hits register fine.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by CriErr View Post
                  @Jonathan87

                  you sound like end user which dont know nothing.
                  I know more than you think. Like I said before in a previous post it isn't just me that notices this difference. Others do as well. Again like I said before some people don't like moving to other games due to the Source engine smooth controls.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jonathan87 View Post
                    I know more than you think. Like I said before in a previous post it isn't just me that notices this difference. Others do as well. Again like I said before some people don't like moving to other games due to the Source engine smooth controls.
                    i don't think so, if you did know something, you would describe the problem in technical terms and don't use "mouse controls is bad"

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by CriErr View Post
                      i don't think so, if you did know something, you would describe the problem in technical terms and don't use "mouse controls is bad"
                      I will explain it in simple turns if it helps you to understand better. The mouse controls aren't as smooth as Source engines are. That's all I am saying! I don't even have to touch my DPI or Mouse acceleration or Polling Rate to get a perfect smoothness in Insurgency. Like I said before OTHER PEOPLE have said the exact same thing. Why do I have to keep repeating myself? Read dude! Is that technical enough for you? I already explained it in a previous post.

                      Explained it before in a previous post:

                      "Dear Epic.

                      I have a suggestion for you in regards to mouse controls. You do have a mouse control option in your current product, Unreal Engine 4; I however have noticed a huge difference between your current mouse control code and the Source Engine.

                      In the Source Engine, mouse controls are far superior than your inferior Unreal Engine coding. How do I know this? I have played with Both Insurgency & Unreal Engine games such as Ground Branch and there is a huge gap in between the two. [B]"In Insurgency which uses the Source Engine, you can hit a target from a long distance without struggling to get your cross scope on them especially if you have a magnified scope equipped. While in an Epic game such as Ground Branch it is very hard to hit a precise target, especially when you have a magnified scope equipped to your character. This has nothing to do with my frames and I have a 400$ Video card installed into my PC. I also have Razor Synapse and I don't even need it for a Source Engine game.

                      Please implement their mouse coding technique into your next UE update to ensure a smoother experience for PC players and future games developed with Unreal Engine. Or at least have the option for different "older" mouse codes which where awesome!

                      Thank you for your time and understanding."
                      Last edited by Jonathan87; 01-06-2016, 08:51 PM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Can you please give an example of a game/sample that you see/saw this? Saying "Unreal can't do mouse input" is a bit confusing without an example from multiple different products who use the same engine.

                        From my perspective its completely dependent on the games implementation and most importantly how they use hit detection (Ray trace vs projectile based). Hit detection can often give the illusion of bad input feedback.

                        I've created a generic FPS, and have been trying out the Unreal Tournament alpha and could not tell the difference in "mouse control" and I competed in early days of CS (CAL-M). Now you are making me feel old from the days before steam :X haha
                        Last edited by KRushin; 01-06-2016, 10:53 PM.
                        Twitter - @TheKRushin

                        Feel free to ask questions and come learn to be an #UnrealDev

                        How to report a Bug

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by KRushin View Post
                          Can you please give an example of a game/sample that you see/saw this? Saying "Unreal can't do mouse input" is a bit confusing without an example from multiple different products who use the same engine.

                          From my perspective its completely dependent on the games implementation and most importantly how they use hit detection (Ray trace vs projectile based). Hit detection can often give the illusion of bad input feedback.

                          I've created a generic FPS, and have been trying out the Unreal Tournament alpha and could not tell the difference in "mouse control" and I competed in early days of CS (CAL-M). Now you are making me feel old from the days before steam :X haha
                          So, are Mouse controls based on the Engine or the way the devs implement it?. I have heard both ways. Unfortunately I do not have any videos to show in regards to the smoothness in each game. Maybe I will try and make one! In response in an example of where I have experienced and saw this was Ground Branch a military tac shooter being made with UE4 and is still in the works. Go download the tech demo for free at their website and do the firing range. For the second part get Insurgency if you can afford it. I think it's like 4.99 CDN right now on Steam and play that game and see how much more smooth the mouse is.

                          Hope this helps you understand a little more.
                          Last edited by Jonathan87; 01-07-2016, 07:14 AM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            @Jonathan87: Hello! Be nice!

                            >>

                            G'day guys,

                            Seems a thread on the Ground Branch forums has made its way over to here.

                            In regards to mouse input in Ground Branch - we barely touched anything to do with it

                            Mouse smoothing & FOV scaling are disabled by default in the DefaultInput.ini:
                            Code:
                            [/Script/Engine.InputSettings]
                            ...
                            bEnableMouseSmoothing=False
                            bEnableFOVScaling=False
                            NOTE: Mouse smoothing can be re-enabled via in-game settings.

                            Sensitivity is adjusted to one of three player configurable values, based on whether the player is aiming & sight type:
                            Code:
                                if (PlayerInput)
                                {
                                    // Check if we're aiming and with what type of sight.
                                    // Change our sensitivity if required.
                                    float TargetMouseSensitivity = MouseSensitivityDefault;
                            
                                    if (IsInState(NAME_Playing))
                                    {
                                        if (!bFreeLook && (GBCharacter != nullptr) && GBCharacter->IsAiming())
                                        {
                                            if (AGBPlayerCameraManager* GBPlayerCameraManager = Cast<AGBPlayerCameraManager>(PlayerCameraManager))
                                            {
                                                if (GBPlayerCameraManager->GetPlayerFOVType() == EPlayerFOV::EngagedMagnified)
                                                {
                                                    TargetMouseSensitivity = MouseSensitivityEngagedMagnified;
                                                }
                                                else
                                                {
                                                    TargetMouseSensitivity = MouseSensitivityEngaged;
                                                }
                                            }
                                        }
                                    }
                            
                                    if (CurrentMouseSensitivity != TargetMouseSensitivity)
                                    {
                                        CurrentMouseSensitivity = TargetMouseSensitivity;
                                        PlayerInput->SetMouseSensitivity(CurrentMouseSensitivity);
                                    }
                                }
                            Other then those minor .ini changes and that short bit of code... yeah, nada

                            I personally notice a difference between Ground Branch and UT4, but since I also know I didn't touch any mouse related code, I am not sure why.

                            If anyone would like to compare the two themselves, there is a Ground Branch Tech Preview available for free on our site.

                            If someone does have any suggestions on to what I may have done or what I should look at (as the games developer), please let me know.

                            NOTE: If it continues down this route of more likely being an issue with GB over the engine itself, I've move this thread to a more appropriate area.

                            Thanks.

                            Kris
                            Last edited by Kris; 01-07-2016, 06:16 AM.
                            Rule#21: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Yay! Hopefully kris can get you fixed up, and check your settings (make sure it isn't a settings issue).

                              Originally posted by Jonathan87 View Post
                              For the second part get Insurgency if you can afford it. I think it's like 4.99 CDN right now on Steam and play that game and see how much more smooth the mouse is.
                              I'm a big fan of insurgency (mod) and now standalone. I was apart of their early alpha test group when they started working on their standalone version. Its awesome how far its come !
                              Twitter - @TheKRushin

                              Feel free to ask questions and come learn to be an #UnrealDev

                              How to report a Bug

                              Comment

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