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    #16
    I just had a little chat with some guys from our company, and nvidia GI works doesnt seem to get the job done, because from what I understood, its basically the same as SVOGI (and then there is also the third party thing^^)
    However...one of our TAs showed me this, which looks pretty interesting to be honest

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bRkyG3R-eI

    Edit: Here is the paper for this: http://www.mpi-inf.mpg.de/~ritschel/Papers/SSDO.pdf
    Last edited by Daedalus51; 03-24-2014, 12:14 PM.
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      #17
      Originally posted by Daedalus51 View Post
      I just had a little chat with some guys from our company, and nvidia GI works doesnt seem to get the job done, because from what I understood, its basically the same as SVOGI (and then there is also the third party thing^^)
      However...one of our TAs showed me this, which looks pretty interesting to be honest

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bRkyG3R-eI

      Edit: Here is the paper for this: http://www.mpi-inf.mpg.de/~ritschel/Papers/SSDO.pdf
      SSDO is already in use in CryEngine, and could easily be added to UE4, it's just a post process effect.

      That being said, it still does look good even with it's limitations.

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        #18
        Yeah...but I honestly didnt know you could achieve convincing GI with it
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          #19
          SVOGI was a development idea, and an early one at that. More about pointing to how we can speed up rays then memory management. The following white paper took this even further with efficient ish ideas using DAG's.

          http://www.cse.chalmers.se/~uffe/Hig...eVoxelDAGs.pdf

          This is more the direction i want epics research heading then a version of SVOGI. Ive also been looking into this as a means to speed up secondary rays for Blender Cycles rendering but also real-time rendering. Ive been trying to explain the idea of using 4D visibilty field maps to encode secondary intra/inter reflection data (just wrap a sphere round the object with a perfect vertex grid spacing and firing rays at the object as an offline process and storing the results to an image map, Basicly a secondary ray per object image map bake like any other bake like normals etc).

          Mixing the pre bake 4D visibility maps with sparse voxel DAG's is far better. This also opens up the ability of realtime efficient path tracing / ray tracing, idea being the 4d map is then remapped to the objects AABB (bounding box) so you only have to trace a small amount of rays against objects bounding volumes which then contain the secondary ray information in the image map bake. This also means only having to have 4d ray maps loaded in memory for objects relevant to screen space, far more efficient then irradiance caching or other old school secondary ray bake methods.

          I started a thread in the feed back forum for epic about this days ago but had no reply but guess devs are busy.

          https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...l-DAG-back-end

          Just hope someone at epic see's it a) and understands my point b).

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            #20
            Originally posted by Daedalus51 View Post
            and nvidia GI works doesnt seem to get the job done, because from what I understood, its basically the same as SVOGI

            Doesn't surprise me since SVOGI was created by Cyril Crassin who works in NVIDIA Research.

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              #21
              Originally posted by TroutButter View Post
              Doesn't surprise me since SVOGI was created by Cyril Crassin who works in NVIDIA Research.
              But....But here it says SVOGI was developed by Andrew Scheidecker at Epic.

              Quote from site:
              The technique is known as SVOGI – Sparse Voxel Octree Global Illumination, and was developed by Andrew Scheidecker at Epic.
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                #22
                Originally posted by ryanjon2040 View Post
                But....But here it says SVOGI was developed by Andrew Scheidecker at Epic.

                Quote from site:
                The original research paper was made by Cyril Crassin.
                http://blog.icare3d.org/2012/06/unre...l-time-gi.html
                http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/gtc...lumination.pdf
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                  #23
                  +1 for what KingBadger3D said^^
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                    #24
                    But SVOGI was run on a single GTX 680 at 1080p. I would guess that Epic might look to reintroduce it (or something like it) when they feel it can run reasonably on a mid-level card (maybe the 860 or 960).
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                      #25
                      We chose to remove SVOGI in order to reduce our maintenance burden and allow us to iterate more quickly on other new and exciting features. It takes a considerable effort to maintain a complex system like SVOGI as the engine grows and evolves: every time we add a new feature or modify an existing feature we have to ensure that it works with all existing features.

                      For that same reason we do not plan to re-integrate SVOGI in to the main branch of UE4.

                      We are considering other options but SVOGI has tendrils throughout the rendering code so it is not a good candidate for a plugin right now. It would also be a considerable effort to get it working again with the latest code.

                      --

                      A lot of our efforts recently have focused on improving static lighting in UE4. That was motivated by bringing up the mobile renderer where static lighting is still largely required as well as looking in to solutions for games that want to target high frame rate (usually 60fps, higher for VR!) while also maintaining a high visual bar.

                      I think dynamic lighting is an important feature and workflow for many games and we will improve our dynamic lighting features over time. UE4 now has experimental support for Light Propagation Volumes as some have pointed out and I think that can be a good solutions for some games. We will work to improve LPV and we have other ideas we plan to explore to provide options for games that do not or cannot rely on Lightmass.
                      Nick Penwarden, Lead Programmer @ Epic Games

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by nick_p View Post
                        We chose to remove SVOGI in order to reduce our maintenance burden and allow us to iterate more quickly on other new and exciting features. It takes a considerable effort to maintain a complex system like SVOGI as the engine grows and evolves: every time we add a new feature or modify an existing feature we have to ensure that it works with all existing features.

                        For that same reason we do not plan to re-integrate SVOGI in to the main branch of UE4.

                        We are considering other options but SVOGI has tendrils throughout the rendering code so it is not a good candidate for a plugin right now. It would also be a considerable effort to get it working again with the latest code.

                        --

                        A lot of our efforts recently have focused on improving static lighting in UE4. That was motivated by bringing up the mobile renderer where static lighting is still largely required as well as looking in to solutions for games that want to target high frame rate (usually 60fps, higher for VR!) while also maintaining a high visual bar.

                        I think dynamic lighting is an important feature and workflow for many games and we will improve our dynamic lighting features over time. UE4 now has experimental support for Light Propagation Volumes as some have pointed out and I think that can be a good solutions for some games. We will work to improve LPV and we have other ideas we plan to explore to provide options for games that do not or cannot rely on Lightmass.
                        Mobile is the new 'Console' now, downgrading for the masses.

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                          #27
                          @Nick_P, Take a look at the papers ive posted and the idea's im pushing. It's not rocket science, If you have something better on the burner let us know but avoidance tactics with no detail is weak.

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                            #28
                            I understand that SVOGI is such a heavy tech. Although, I think if Epic would ever deliver us those tech demos (may be Samaritan though it's #MadeWithUE3; Elemental & Infiltrator - both are good, but I find Elemental still one of the most impressive thing on market besides modern engines like Snowdrop or Luminous engine) then it'd be just spectacular to run that actual 2012 demo that once Alan Willard made a walkthrough on. Those statues, that spotlight sphere, etc. <omnomnom>
                            *I may be wrong about it (dropping the tech demos into marketplace) but I've heard about that... somewhere))
                            **And yes, SVOGI would probably cause an enormous perf hit on my rig (because even GTX680 is a bit outdated nowadays), but it still would be an interesting experience to try.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by nick_p View Post
                              For that same reason we do not plan to re-integrate SVOGI in to the main branch of UE4.
                              Its really sad to hear that Nick. Honestly I wished to try SVOGI because i really really loved when Alan Willard demonstrated it. Till now i have always watched that walkthrough video over and over again just to see the beauty of it. I was totally amazed when i saw the light environment changing from day to night. It was just......spectacular.

                              Just wondering...instead of integrating it into the main branch of UE4, can Epic share the code for SVOGI (and maybe a note on how to actually integrate it) so that other members here can integrate it for themselves and upload it to Github? This way Epic dont have to worry about maintenance burden or anything else. Just a suggestion.
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                                #30
                                @ryanjon2040, I can't promise anything but I'd like to!

                                @KingBadger3D, Sorry, I'm not trying to avoid anything, I just can't promise features we're not actively working on. What I said is accurate: we are working to improve LPV and we have other ideas we'd like to explore (but aren't because we are busy working on other features). We'll be releasing updated versions of the engine on a regular basis so you will be able to see our progress and what we're working on pretty much as we do it, including WIP features that aren't quite ready like LPV.
                                Nick Penwarden, Lead Programmer @ Epic Games

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