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    Originally posted by ZenDavis View Post
    https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...l=1#post701303

    You can see the issues with mesh decals and why Spline Decals should be implemented. Because Epic implemented Mesh Decals, which to be fair was a long time ago, my own personal project is hampered by the number of roads I in my project, and the time investment needed afterwards for the terrain touchups needed to make the look nice.

    In the future if the inclusion of such features were more transparent, this wouldn't have been as big of an issue. That transparency could be easily communicated through the roadmap as the features are being created rather than as development winds down. We could weigh the pros and cons of how similar systems in other engines is handled, like how Maximum-Dev does in that thread, comparing CryEngine and Unreal. The alternative is like I discussed before. We're stuck with Mesh Decals with no clue when Spline Decals will be implemented. Roadmap voting would let us get that figured out sooner as well.

    If you're looking to discuss how this affects me personally, please send me a PM. After Chance's last couple of messages about fighting, I'm not looking to derail the thread.
    The Epic engineer responded to that thread and has been transparent. The outcome wasn't what you and others wanted, but they did respond. Did you read the post suggested by the engineer about why certain features might not make it into the engine? What more do you want Epic to do? Other than implementing the feature, what additional communication could they have done in addition to the posts already on that thread? This is transparency... No? You may not like the method of communication...forum responses as opposed to a road map, and that's made perfectly clear. The end result though is the same...communication.

    You didn't answer my audio question and how Epic failed to be transparent about a feature that was introduced back in early Feb. What else could they have done that would have satisfied your transparency needs?
    "A little bit of nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men..."
    -- Willy Wonka

    Smooth Zoom Camera Plugin for 4.22 here.

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      Originally posted by teak421 View Post
      The Epic engineer responded to that thread and has been transparent. The outcome wasn't what you and others wanted, but they did respond. Did you read the post suggested by the engineer about why certain features might not make it into the engine? What more do you want Epic to do? Other than implementing the feature, what additional communication could they have done in addition to the posts already on that thread? This is transparency... No? You may not like the method of communication...forum responses as opposed to a road map, and that's made perfectly clear. The end result though is the same...communication.

      You didn't answer my audio question and how Epic failed to be transparent about a feature that was introduced back in early Feb. What else could they have done that would have satisfied your transparency needs?
      Communication and clear communication are two different things. There was clearly a failure to communicate clearly which is what my post addresses. Like I mentioned, conflicts like those are regressive and could have been addressed with regular twitter like updates added to the Trello roadmaps regarding the limitations Epic Staff are working with. Ultimately, both sides end up feeling salty. Max-Dev feels like Epic doesn't care about him. The Epic staff meanwhile feel like they are being unfairly criticized for technical limitations beyond their control. What you're arguing is that bad communication is okay as long as the attempt is made. I disagree with that assertion. I'm sure many others will as well.

      Regarding the audio, send me a PM regarding my discussion of the audio system. I fear there's a few things that have gone over your head. But if you want to post a full history of how the new audio system was introduced for us, the methods placed for us to review it, and how both reveal and review were in correlation with the roadmap, I think the entire thread will be happy to go through the process with you, myself included.
      Last edited by ZenDavis; 05-03-2017, 12:52 PM.

      Comment


        Originally posted by ZenDavis View Post
        Communication and clear communication are two different things. There was clearly a failure to communicate clearly which is what my post addresses. Like I mentioned, conflicts like those are regressive and could have been addressed with regular twitter like updates added to the Trello roadmaps regarding the limitations Epic Staff are working with. Ultimately, both sides end up feeling salty. Max-Dev feels like Epic doesn't care about him. The Epic staff meanwhile feel like they are being unfairly criticized for technical limitations beyond their control.

        Regarding the audio, send me a PM regarding my discussion of the audio system. I fear there's a few things that have gone over your head. But if you want to post a full history of how the new audio system was introduced for us, the methods placed for us to review it, and how both reveal and review were in correlation with the roadmap, I think the entire thread will be happy to go through the process with you, myself included.
        PM is not necessary... The feedback provided by you about how the audio changes were introduced (and discussed on a current forum thread) back in early Feb would be important for all to see...most importantly, Epic.

        teak
        "A little bit of nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men..."
        -- Willy Wonka

        Smooth Zoom Camera Plugin for 4.22 here.

        Comment


          Originally posted by teak421 View Post
          The Epic engineer responded to that thread and has been transparent. The outcome wasn't what you and others wanted, but they did respond. Did you read the post suggested by the engineer about why certain features might not make it into the engine?
          It was actually Alexander's post on the thread not an Epic engineer. And what Alexander did was linking an engineer's external article on why some features might not be implemented. It didn't necessarily mean spline decals aren't in because of something related to that article. This creates confusion. Alexander mentioned if there's enough audience for it, it'll be looked into. Spline decals are a generic tool with wide use and large audience. I asked Alexander how many votes are needed and we'll literally spread the news so anyone who needs the tool will vote for it. Of course if don't, only 5-10 people will vote for it since others aren't aware such ticket exists. I didn't get a response from Alexander on that. And more over, none of the engineers have actually responded to the thread to let us know if they have seen the thread or not, if there is a barricade in the way or not, if they're going to add it sometime later or not. That's where transparency is lacking.

          If any of the engineers step in and say look, despite this tool having a large audience, despite most of you being harmed because of absence of this tool, we're not able to implement it for X reason, I'd say alright thanks for getting back to us. That's how simple it is.

          Edit: Like Zen said, I don't like to be banned either so please post in related thread if you want to leave a reply.
          Last edited by Maximum-Dev; 05-03-2017, 01:13 PM.
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            Looking forward to reviewing how Epic could have improved the rollout of the audio changes... Until then, have a great one...

            teak
            "A little bit of nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men..."
            -- Willy Wonka

            Smooth Zoom Camera Plugin for 4.22 here.

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              Originally posted by Chance Ivey View Post
              Hey all, thank you for all of your feedback on the roadmap, our bug list and other pieces of our offerings. It seems that more heads up on the roadmap alterations would have been welcomed. This is on us, and we'll do our best to provide more runway for conversation to happen before we make wide changes to how we present information going forward. Thanks for your patience with us while we work through the change and apologies for any pain felt. We're parsing a lot of the feedback here in hopes to continue to evolve our offerings based on it. A couple ways you can help us hear you better in this thread:

              BUGFIXES: We understand that a number of you have been looking for specific bug fixes to be implemented. The best place to continue those conversations is somewhere outside of this roadmap thread. The roadmap is a place to discuss forward facing features and issues should be taken up on their answerhub thread or in the parent forum - Feedback for Epic. As a few others have pointed out, Nick Darnell has a great follow up regarding some of the questions that have been brought up in this thread over here.

              ARGUING / FIGHTING:
              This is hopefully the last time I'll mention this, but please keep the fighting and attacks to a minimum in this thread and on these boards. Taking shots at each-other is not constructive for anyone involved, and we'll have to take action if it continues.

              There's a ton of great discussion regarding the Unreal Engine roadmap happening here that we're thankful for (and heading!), I fear a lot of it is being lost in arguing and off-topic discussion. Thanks for helping us make this a productive conversation and keeping things on track while we pursue ways to better serve you all.
              How is the parsing of the feedback going?

              Also:

              01. When can we get a conversation going on what will happen with 4.17? Or is that never going to happen?
              02. Why can't you post more than once every 24 hours in regards to the road map (or on the forums in general)?
              03. Why did you go the whole month without telling us about the changes to the road map?
              04. When is the next update to the roadmap coming?
              05. Are any of the the upcoming features in 4.17 debatable?
              06. How are decisions made on what to work on next? Does each team work on whatever they feel like? Or is there overall directive and goal going from version to version?
              07. What is the reason bugfixes can't be on the Roadmap? It seems like otherwise they get forgotten for literally years on end? How do you intend to address this otherwise?
              08. Should we continue to expect a culture of prioritizing new features at the cost of bugfixes in the Roadmap?
              09. What spurred on the decision to prioritize the Audio System for 4.16?
              10. Does the Roadmap take into account other games generating revenue for Epic that could use specific features? If not, what could spur that on?
              11. Instead of a voting system like before, why not set up a bracket system organized by Epic for the community, where we can vote for specific features? We start with 64 potential features. The top 32 voted features move to the next voting bracket. We vote again and the top 16 features move up. Eventually when we have our top 4 features, that's how you know what the community wants the most. Services like Brackify: https://brackify.com/product/pricing - will let you do that for free. Winners get added to the road map (along with a time frame for how long they'll take to be implemented, meaning that a feature might get put on the agenda today to be completed by 4.19).

              Comment


                Hey [MENTION=14299]ZenDavis[/MENTION], a few replies to your questions:

                01. When can we get a conversation going on what will happen with 4.17? Or is that never going to happen?
                As mentioned, you will see more items show up on the roadmap when we know they're going to make 4.17. That release is still a few months away, so knowing what all is going to land is still to be determined. Keep an eye on the roadmap for updates!

                02. Why can't you post more than once every 24 hours in regards to the road map (or on the forums in general)?
                Chatting with the community on the forums here is one of my many exciting responsibilities at Epic. I try and hop in as often as possible to address concerns and gather feedback. I've been away for a couple months working on a number of great initiatives and am glad to be chatting with you all here again.

                03. Why did you go the whole month without telling us about the changes to the road map?
                We recognize that we failed to give everyone a proper heads up on the changes and look to improve in this regard going forward.

                04. When is the next update to the roadmap coming?
                Charles is looking to have updates heading to the roadmap at a regular cadence as our development teams do their regular planning, which I believe is monthly but I'll double check! We try to keep the roadmap as current as possible with the development team plans.

                05. Are any of the the upcoming features in 4.17 debatable?
                Debatable in what sense exactly?

                06. How are decisions made on what to work on next? Does each team work on whatever they feel like? Or is there overall directive and goal going from version to version?
                As mentioned earlier, Alexander summed this up pretty well, so I'll drop that info here again:
                "1. Community interest: Threads in the Feedback for Epic section, AnswerHub reports, social media posts and votes on the issues page help determine that. Please keep giving feedback and make sure to specifically explain how you would expect the tools to work for the best results. The mesh editor is an example of a tool made from these kinds of requests.
                2. Large audience need: Generic tools that help out a large audience are prioritized highly. Sequencer, Niagara, Audio Engine and other tool overhauls fall into this category. This is probably the highest priority in general since it helps so many people.
                3. Epic Games project need: One of Epic's projects needed it, so it was ported over from the game into a generic engine tool. AnimDynamics, VR Forward Renderer and Behavior Trees were created for this. These get added a lot since the tool is already done and it's just a matter of porting and testing."

                07. What is the reason bugfixes can't be on the Roadmap? It seems like otherwise they get forgotten for literally years on end? How do you intend to address this otherwise?
                This currently is the case for two reasons - The roadmap is forward facing feature work, while bugfixes are always going to be in every release. The other would be that there are hundreds of fixes that go into every release. We're looking at adding a card to the roadmap that links over to the appropriate filter view on the Trello to minimize noise but provide this valuable information to everyone.

                08. Should we continue to expect a culture of prioritizing new features at the cost of bugfixes in the Roadmap?
                We don't prioritize new features at the cost of bug-fixing and stability. All software development is a balance of evolution based on user needs and support for existing functionality. We do recognize that there are some long-standing bugs that affect a portion of the community and are looking at ways to get fixes in for them.

                09. What spurred on the decision to prioritize the Audio System for 4.16?
                We have a couple of audio engineers that work specifically on audio, hence the movement for audio in upcoming releases

                10. Does the Roadmap take into account other games generating revenue for Epic that could use specific features? If not, what could spur that on?
                As mentioned above, community interest, large audience needs and Epic Games project needs all play important roles in helping us define where to go next and what to focus on.

                11. Instead of a voting system like before, why not set up a bracket system organized by Epic for the community, where we can vote for specific features? We start with 64 potential features. The top 32 voted features move to the next voting bracket. We vote again and the top 16 features move up. Eventually when we have our top 4 features, that's how you know what the community wants the most. Services like Brackify: https://brackify.com/product/pricing - will let you do that for free. Winners get added to the road map (along with a time frame for how long they'll take to be implemented, meaning that a feature might get put on the agenda today to be completed by 4.19).
                We're glad that there is so much interest in voting and are looking into ways to provide better tools for collecting community feedback on future items. Until then, please drop us a line and continue the discussion in the parent Feedback for Epic forum. While the development teams occasionally drops in and comments, rest assured that a great number of us read that forum and gauge interest based on it.

                Thanks again for your comments and suggestions.
                Let's Connect [Twitter]

                Comment


                  I sincerely wish you would implement some kind of system, that would indicate reliability of forecast on the new roadmap.
                  As an example, color coding like, Green-> definitely gets shipped on schedule, Yellow->Has a chance to be delayed, Red-> definitely delayed.
                  Things, that are not planned, or being looked at as potentially implementable in the future should not even be on the roadmap. That is actually the part of the new design I like.
                  Needless to say, that there should not be anything moving in or out from the roadmap. In my view, displaying a feature as planned for 4.19 and then moving it to backlog around 4.18 is considerably worse than not announcing it at all.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Deathrey View Post
                    I sincerely wish you would implement some kind of system, that would indicate reliability of forecast on the new roadmap.
                    As an example, color coding like, Green-> definitely gets shipped on schedule, Yellow->Has a chance to be delayed, Red-> definitely delayed.
                    Things, that are not planned, or being looked at as potentially implementable in the future should not even be on the roadmap. That is actually the part of the new design I like.
                    Needless to say, that there should not be anything moving in or out from the roadmap. In my view, displaying a feature as planned for 4.19 and then moving it to backlog around 4.18 is considerably worse than not announcing it at all.
                    Thanks for the ideas, Deathray. We'll take this into account and check the viability when going forward.
                    Let's Connect [Twitter]

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                      It would be also great to shortly explain why some features/issues are backlogged. Let's say, you have a list of commonly requested features and you explain there "Hey, we cannot do custom orientation gravity yet because it requires refactoring navmesh system, lots of physics code, etc". Single paragraph of text would be enough. It would 100x better than simply marking feature as Backlogged aka "noboby knows what happens and why". Maybe Trello is good place for it, maybe not. I don't care where the info would published - just keep in one place.
                      Of course no game engine company does it on regular basis. But you could be the first one
                      Last edited by Doctor Ergot; 05-04-2017, 02:52 AM.

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                        I'm still waiting for this to finally happen. How many more years should we wait?

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                          Originally posted by ShadowDweller View Post
                          I'm still waiting for this to finally happen. How many more years should we wait?
                          Vault Cache Location:

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                          teak
                          Last edited by teak421; 05-12-2017, 09:56 AM.
                          "A little bit of nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men..."
                          -- Willy Wonka

                          Smooth Zoom Camera Plugin for 4.22 here.

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                            Please change the roadmap and implement the requested features, backlogging important requests for years might mean win or loose for a project. In addition to that, if something really needs to be backlogged because of whatever reasons (there might be some good ones), you could roughly share your thoughts with the community. It's always easier for everyone to understand and as well plan their project ahead, if they really know what is to come. It also creates some more trust.

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                              Originally posted by teak421 View Post
                              Vault Cache Location
                              Updating Paragon, for example, still requires double its size, plus the patch size. "Vault Cache" option is NOT invoked in ANY way.
                              Last edited by ShadowDweller; 05-15-2017, 04:10 AM.

                              Comment


                                I Have a quick Request that wil be a joy regarding the New Cloth System.

                                Can you PLEASE apply an option to update the physics asset for an existing cloth asset? Also anytime i i remove a cloth asset, the random character pieces suddenly stretch some vertexes down to the origin zero. Weird buggy thingy.
                                Cheers.

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