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    Originally posted by DamirH View Post
    AnswerHub was always intended to be a community tool, not an "Epic fix this for me" tool because first and foremost, most issues on AnswerHub are "Where's the make MMORPG button"-tier questions.
    If real engine issues are buried in a sea of questions of basic usability, then AnswerHub is the wrong software for the job.
    while I can agree that AnswerHub is intended to be a community tool, Epic staff always (with the usual canned replies on these forums) directs everyone to report issues there which makes it the closest thing to official place to do it (aka. your only chance to see stuff getting fixed).
    Now let's face it, the community is not going to fix any engine bugs you encounter. So of course if the only place to get support (for real engine issues) is a community hub, it really feels like you're left out in the cold as far as support goes.
    Some voices will claim that there's source access so you can fix any issues yourself. This lack of support would be fine if the engine was distributed 'as is', but I find that a little hard to accept from a third party engine where you give them back 5% of your profits
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      Originally posted by ZenDavis View Post
      The idea is that while Chance makes time to tweet about his Persona 5 activity, he didn't make time on April 3rd-7th, April 10th-14th, to actively get back to use on what was happening with the Road Map or even why that was delayed. Those are weekdays. Those are days he was actively working. If he could make time to tweet about Persona 5 during his off-work activities, why couldn't he generate the enthusiasm for his on-work activties during the 9-5 hours you alluded to earlier and give his 150 characters to inform us why the Road Map was delayed? It would have taken him no more than 60 seconds to type up those 150 characters to update us. It's ludicrous.

      Chance, your professional life affects our personal life. Please emphathize with this. Please. To move past this, we need a simple and straightforward conversation as to why that won't happen again and we need more input on how the roadmap looks moving forward. If you don't have time to actually communicate properly as Community Manager, ask Epic to hire someone else so you can continue coding. Trust me, they have the money.
      Which feature is broken that prohibits you from shipping a game? (professional life effects our personal life).
      "A little bit of nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men..."
      -- Willy Wonka

      Smooth Zoom Camera Plugin for 4.22 here.

      Comment


        Originally posted by teak421 View Post
        Which feature is broken that prohibits you from shipping a game? (professional life effects our personal life).
        Just because something's not broken, doesn't mean it's okay. Batman: Arkham Knight ran. It wasn't broken. That didn't stop people from throwing a **** storm because it was buggy to all-hell until Warner had to pull the game.

        People will start hammering your game for performance issues. Ark and PU: Battleground in spite of their successes have an overwhelming number of negative reviews because issues like foliage costs are making running those games problematic for a lot of people.

        Comment


          Originally posted by ZenDavis View Post
          Just because something's not broken, doesn't mean it's okay. Batman: Arkham Knight ran. It wasn't broken. That didn't stop people from throwing a **** storm because it was buggy to all-hell until Warner had to pull the game.

          People will start hammering your game for performance issues. Ark and PU: Battleground in spite of their successes have an overwhelming number of negative reviews because issues like foliage costs are making running those games problematic for a lot of people.
          I'm not talking about games that have already shipped... I am asking you about YOUR specific game / project. What feature is lacking that is preventing you from shipping a well performing game? Or, as you put it...affecting your personal life.

          teak
          "A little bit of nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men..."
          -- Willy Wonka

          Smooth Zoom Camera Plugin for 4.22 here.

          Comment


            Nick from Epic has posted a reply on the bug / backlog question...

            See his reply here: https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...gged-vs-Fixing

            teak
            "A little bit of nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men..."
            -- Willy Wonka

            Smooth Zoom Camera Plugin for 4.22 here.

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              Originally posted by teak421 View Post
              I'm not talking about games that have already shipped... I am asking you about YOUR specific game / project. What feature is lacking that is preventing you from shipping a well performing game? Or, as you put it...affecting your personal life.

              teak
              Virtual texturing and the foliage performance hit both affect my project as I'm also working on an open-world game. Both negatively impact performance and will be problematic for users upon release.

              Also I shouldn't need a personal stake in an issue to have a say in that issue being resolved. Trying to come at me from this angle is ultimately a strawman attempt. All I'm doing is holding Epic to the same standards that customers would hold each and every single one of us if we released a buggy game. I'm honestly confused why you would think there's anything wrong with that.
              Last edited by ZenDavis; 05-01-2017, 12:30 AM.

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                Originally posted by ZenDavis View Post
                Virtual texturing and the foliage performance hit both affect my project as I'm also working on an open-world game. Both negatively impact performance and will be problematic for users upon release.

                Also I shouldn't need a personal stake in an issue to have a say in that issue being resolved. Trying to come at me from this angle is ultimately a strawman attempt. All I'm doing is holding Epic to the same standards that customers would hold each and every single one of us if we released a buggy game. I'm honestly confused why you would think there's anything wrong with that.
                Don't be confused, because I wasn't saying anything was right or wrong about what you are doing... I'm trying to understand how you personally have been affected since you have mentioned it several times. If the performance issues are problematic and it will cause problems for your users upon release, why are you using UE4? Aren't you wasting your time on an engine that will not work for your specific project?

                teak
                "A little bit of nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men..."
                -- Willy Wonka

                Smooth Zoom Camera Plugin for 4.22 here.

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                  Originally posted by teak421 View Post
                  Why are you leaving feedback in the feedback forum??? Why don't you go use another engine if you don't like it?

                  teak
                  Please read this again:

                  Originally posted by ZenDavis View Post
                  The thing is using any engine is an investment. In many ways its like buying a house and building a life around the location of that house. You can't just pick up the codebase we invested to make for this platform and move to another engine. And so early on many of us had to make a decision whether we would trust Epic and build our life in this ecosystem. Whether we would invest thousands of dollars to get a project made that would earn a living for all of us (and in turn share 5% of the wealth we accumulated with Epic Games for giving us that platform).
                  I explained my technical issues with the engine. I put money into a team to develop my game. That's my personal stake. When I release the game and it has performance issues thanks to the broken foliage system, and other aforementioned bugs, that impacts my sales and reviews of my game. Those will affect me PERSONALLY. The Epic staff still gets paid no matter what at the end of the day. As such, I see the responses other developers get, learn from their experiences, and I bring those concerns into this forum so they'll be addressed.

                  I don't see a reason to get deeper into it when your line of questioning is getting dangerously close to "Love it or leave it". But in an effort to educate, Feedback forums are intended to give Feedback, good or bad, in order to make things better for all of those involved. That's what I've been doing, along with many others. So if your question to me is why am I wasting my time on Unreal, that question, by proxy has to be extended to everyone who has made a post in this forum, and by further association everyone who has ever posted in AnswerHub. And that includes you! You've posted about bugs with Unreal as well, right? Aren't you similarly wasting your time? Why don't you go use another engine?

                  The reason is the hope that things get better. That's why this forum exists in the first place. To realize that hope.
                  Last edited by ZenDavis; 05-01-2017, 04:06 AM.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by teak421 View Post
                    I'm not talking about games that have already shipped... I am asking you about YOUR specific game / project. What feature is lacking that is preventing you from shipping a well performing game? Or, as you put it...affecting your personal life.

                    teak
                    I have a solid 30 FPS regression when using grass tool for our game. The issue was targeted for 4.16 until last night. It's targeted for 4.17 now. And who knows if it will be backlogged like most others near 4.17 release? That issue is preventing us to make a tasty 5% for Epic.
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                      [MENTION=13257]Maximum-Dev[/MENTION] - Can you run stat scenerendering and confirm that, with the landscape grass tool, you have ~10 times more drawcalls than with the same-ish number of manually drawn foliage objects? I have a sneaking suspicion that you have ran into the same issue that Andrew Hurley refused to acknowledge was real when I reported it almost two years ago: https://answers.unrealengine.com/que...r-to-load.html

                      Could be wrong though.
                      Last edited by DamirH; 05-01-2017, 06:09 AM.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by ZenDavis View Post
                        Please read this again:



                        I explained my technical issues with the engine. I put money into a team to develop my game. That's my personal stake. When I release the game and it has performance issues thanks to the broken foliage system, and other aforementioned bugs, that impacts my sales and reviews of my game. Those will affect me PERSONALLY. The Epic staff still gets paid no matter what at the end of the day. As such, I see the responses other developers get, learn from their experiences, and I bring those concerns into this forum so they'll be addressed.

                        I don't see a reason to get deeper into it when your line of questioning is getting dangerously close to "Love it or leave it". But in an effort to educate, Feedback forums are intended to give Feedback, good or bad, in order to make things better for all of those involved. That's what I've been doing, along with many others. So if your question to me is why am I wasting my time on Unreal, that question, by proxy has to be extended to everyone who has made a post in this forum, and by further association everyone who has ever posted in AnswerHub. And that includes you! You've posted about bugs with Unreal as well, right? Aren't you similarly wasting your time? Why don't you go use another engine?

                        The reason is the hope that things get better. That's why this forum exists in the first place. To realize that hope.
                        Is it realizing hope when you bash Epic employees about their twitter feed? Or requesting them to replace an existing employee because your needs are not met? Is your tone overall constructive? I actually agree with some of your stuff that you are talking about, but complaining about someone twitter feed and your overall tone isn't helpful.

                        As for love it or leave it... if I was putting money into a project I would want to ensure that the tools used would be the right one for the job... If you are not getting the results needed for your project, perhaps UE4 is not the engine for you. This is not an emotional issue, rather practical.

                        teak
                        "A little bit of nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men..."
                        -- Willy Wonka

                        Smooth Zoom Camera Plugin for 4.22 here.

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                          I'd just like to reiterate that attacking anyone for what they do in their off hours was not the smartest choice to make. As a matter of fact it really jeopardises the trustworthiness of all your subsequent posts no matter how correct they might actually be.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by DamirH View Post
                            I'd just like to reiterate that attacking anyone for what they do in their off hours was not the smartest choice to make. As a matter of fact it really jeopardises the trustworthiness of all your subsequent posts no matter how correct they might actually be.
                            Originally posted by teak421 View Post
                            Is it realizing hope when you bash Epic employees about their twitter feed? Or requesting them to replace an existing employee because your needs are not met? Is your tone overall constructive? I actually agree with some of your stuff that you are talking about, but complaining about someone twitter feed and your overall tone isn't helpful.

                            As for love it or leave it... if I was putting money into a project I would want to ensure that the tools used would be the right one for the job... If you are not getting the results needed for your project, perhaps UE4 is not the engine for you. This is not an emotional issue, rather practical.

                            teak
                            If your stance is that it's perfectly fine for Chance to more put effort into communicating his Persona 5 playing habits, instead of communicating the ongoing issues with the road map, or bugfixes, or feature requests, that has nothing to do with my "trustworthiness". You're free to take that stance if you want, but I think it's ridiculous that people are legitimately failing their duties and your responses are, "Don't talk about their Twitter feed." They need to do their job right, or someone else needs to do that job for them. That's not a stance anyone, in anyone field of employment, should have an issue with. That there was more of an effort put to discuss their gaming habits is something that deserves to be called out.

                            Here's what I'm expecting, if not with me, then with everyone else here, that there be some kind of discussion on how this Road Map be developed, and the kind of featureset we can all agree on for 4.17. And for there to be regular daily communications with all of us. For the love of god, at least put in the effort that you put on your own Twitter feed into these forums when updating us, or we can continue to be left in the dark as we've been for the past three years. You two are free to vote how you like but if you vote for the latter, Damir be content knowing that your problems will continue to be ignored like they've been in the past.
                            Last edited by ZenDavis; 05-01-2017, 10:47 AM.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by ZenDavis View Post
                              If your stance is that it's perfectly fine for Chance to more put effort into communicating his Persona 5 playing habits, instead of communicating the ongoing issues with the road map, or bugfixes, or feature requests, that has nothing to do with my "trustworthiness". You're free to take that stance if you want. But I think it's ridiculous that people are legitimately failing their duties and your responses are, "Don't talk about their Twitter feed." They need to do their job right, or someone else needs to do that job for them. That's not a stance anyone, in anyone field of employment, should have an issue with.
                              Wow... I don't think Chance is failing his duties. Like all of us, we could improve, but to say he's failing is silly. I believe his team is one of the best community teams I've ever seen! But, could communications be improved concerning how bugs are determined (i.e. slow landscape) sure... Nick has done just that in the other thread I posted above. In reviewing Nick's response, could it be more "formal"...sure. Let's give them a chance... no pun intended! <smiles>

                              teak
                              "A little bit of nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men..."
                              -- Willy Wonka

                              Smooth Zoom Camera Plugin for 4.22 here.

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                                Originally posted by teak421 View Post
                                Wow... I don't think Chance is failing his duties. Like all of us, we could improve, but to say he's failing is silly. I believe his team is one of the best community teams I've ever seen! But, could communications be improved concerning how bugs are determined (i.e. slow landscape) sure... Nick has done just that in the other thread I posted above. In reviewing Nick's response, could it be more "formal"...sure. Let's give them a chance... no pun intended! <smiles>

                                teak
                                Then we can agree to disagree.

                                By the 7th, Chance should have updated us on the situation with the roadmap. By the 14th, we should have gotten a heads up regarding the change in direction of the roadmap. By the 21st, he should have accumulated our feedback for whether we agreed to these changes. Are these expectations beyond the scope of a Community Manager's responsibilities?

                                Originally posted by Chance Ivey View Post
                                Hey all, we've made some updates to the Unreal Engine roadmap. Read all about what is new here!
                                This is his FIRST post in 2017 in this thread. Over 4 months have gone by without a hint from the Community Manager about the changes brewing in the Road Map. If you think failure is too strong of a word, that's fine. But certainly we can't describe this as anything good. Even if you remove every single one my posts out of this thread, the reaction to this road map can't be seen as anything good. People aren't happy.
                                Last edited by ZenDavis; 05-01-2017, 11:12 AM.

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