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    [FEATURE REQUEST] CMAA an alternative antialiasing with less blur

    CMAA an alternative antialiasing with less blur.

    Source:
    https://software.intel.com/en-us/art...-aliasing-cmaa

    After read that looks like probably give best results than the actual Unreal Engine 4 AA and with low cost.

    I think this probably help to mitigate this:
    https://answers.unrealengine.com/que...-blur-all.html
    https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...ht=Antialising
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    #2
    Yup.. we absolutely need better AA option(s) since Temporal AA is extremely blurry, especially with moving objects.. and FXAA is not good enough until 4K becomes the standard.. (but at least it's way less blurry )

    I'm not an expert in rendering stuff but is MSAA a no-go for some technical reason (deferred rendering)?

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      #3
      MSAA probably requires you to super-sample all the g-buffer content and thus drastically drag the framerate down. I assume.. Not sure how exactly it would work.
      Brent Liu
      ::TeaCrab::
      https://www.artstation.com/artist/remotecrab131

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        #4
        MSAA is just expensive that's all.

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          #5
          Originally posted by TheJamsh View Post
          MSAA is just expensive that's all.
          MSAA Expensive but with the best results of all AA's and without material blur, since only blur the needed sides.

          There is the SMAA too but i no idea if this give better results than the actual solution. http://www.iryoku.com/smaa/

          You can compare here some AA's:

          http://album.atomic-systems.com/show...95747/Comp.jpg
          Last edited by Hevedy; 05-07-2015, 04:52 PM.
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            #6
            It's a good solution, but if it's going to be in the engine it's got to be viable for most platforms too.

            I imagine we'll get MSAA at some point, though - or something on par. There's also the option right now to get the nVidia Gameworks-builds of the engine, and you could try the new (900-series specific) anti-aliasing that they've been working on. It's specific to the new 970 & 980 cards though IIRC.

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              #7
              Originally posted by TheJamsh View Post
              MSAA is just expensive that's all.
              You mean it's expensive in general or specifically in UE4? cause nearly every game I have played recently had MSAA with (relatively) minimal FPS drop (at least at 2x ).

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                #8
                Originally posted by TK-Master View Post
                You mean it's expensive in general or specifically in UE4? cause nearly every game I have played recently had MSAA with (relatively) minimal FPS drop (at least at 2x ).
                Too.
                I think the engines with deferred shading/render can handle more lights but they have serious problems with masked materials like grass, leaves, hair, fences... SMOKE and particles in general give much more FPS drops than the old engines/games with forward render with particles & masked (or that is what i think) plus the materials with transparency don't have shadows and the AA have a different way than the forward render.
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                  #9
                  There's Pros and Cons to both Forward and Deferred. In this day and age most people go Deferred since it's much easier to modify and expand, and suits what the current market needs are a bit better. Things like Dynamic Lighting and GI are becoming ever more popular these days as GPU performance increases at a far faster rate than things like memory for lightmaps and suchlike. Certain things like deferred decals etc. just aren't possible in a forward renderer too. Oh and we get nice reflections too, and faster translucent lighting etc.

                  Translucency/sorting is the main thing that suffers, along with Aliasing so it seems. A lot of people have complained about TAA's artefacts. Like different rendering paths though, all of the Anti-Aliasing methods have their own pros and cons.

                  MSAA is difficult to do well in deferred rendering I believe, because by the time the Aliasing runs the data has already been written to the GBuffer (basically a glorified texture). In a Forward renderer you can read the pixels around the aliased ones and fill in the data based on a number of things, but in deferred that get's more difficult. I think it's just too expensive to implement in the Engine, which already has enough bells and whistles going on in it's renderer.

                  Good thread on this subject over here btw: https://www.opengl.org/discussion_bo...ferred-shading
                  Last edited by TheJamsh; 05-08-2015, 05:28 AM.

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                    #10
                    I don't like Temporal AA because it makes everything appear out of focus. It really doesn't like moving cameras from what I've seen either. You basically end up with no AA after moving until it re-iterates the samples again in a lot of cases. The ghosting and drastic changes to specularity/bloom is another really big issue. Between the current options of Temporal or FXAA I really just prefer none. But turning off Temporal also guts translucent and a number of other reflections for whatever reason. I don't know how tied together they are. I would like to just see SMAA but the missing reflections are also an issue.

                    http://imgur.com/a/q3pwb

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by UntamedLoli View Post
                      I don't like Temporal AA because it makes everything appear out of focus. It really doesn't like moving cameras from what I've seen either. You basically end up with no AA after moving until it re-iterates the samples again in a lot of cases. The ghosting and drastic changes to specularity/bloom is another really big issue. Between the current options of Temporal or FXAA I really just prefer none. But turning off Temporal also guts translucent and a number of other reflections for whatever reason. I don't know how tied together they are. I would like to just see SMAA but the missing reflections are also an issue.

                      http://imgur.com/a/q3pwb
                      Looks like the reflections only work in the temporal AA ??
                      I got this problems:

                      https://answers.unrealengine.com/que...-problems.html
                      But no idea if this is a bug or is by the BSP or by the AA
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                        #12
                        Hi Everyone -

                        Our rendering team is aware of the CMAA and other AA processes, but as I have pointed out in other threads in and TheJamsh has pointed out here, it is always an issue of performance. Our team weighs the pros and cons of using a particular method with the technology we already have in the engine. Temporal Supersampling was developed as a middle ground between the FXAA which did not offer a smooth enough and MSAA which caused a massive problem with performance in a Deferred Rendering Environment. A lot of the methodology listed in the CMAA article that Hevedy linked is actually already a part of the Temporal Supersampling process as implemented in UE4. The differences are the algorithms used and the fact that the EGO engine is a Forward rendering engine and not a Deferred Engine like UE4.

                        All that being said our rendering team is constantly looking for ways to improve the engine as new methodologies and techniques are developed both internally and externally. I would highly recommend everyone take some time and review the Temporal AA powerpoint that Brian Karis gave at Siggraph2014 uploaded on our Resource Page.

                        Thank You

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                          #13
                          Ouch.. then basically, there is currently no solution to the problem that could be implemented in UE4(?).

                          I know that you guys are constantly trying to improve stuff but.. I can not see how Temporal AA is going to ever look as good as MSAA to be honest

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                          WIP FFT Ocean w/ Foam, Quad-tree Infinite Ocean LOD

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                            #14
                            I think Temporal AA is unusable, everything is just incredibly blurry and there is so much ghosting. And FXAA does not look good. At the moment I use FXAA because it's way better than having everything blurred with Temporal AA, but a good alternative is really needed.
                            Last edited by John Alcatraz; 05-11-2015, 04:09 PM.
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                              #15
                              After that comments and some check i think the engine need a internal rework more than other temporal AA plus the Temporal AA is an addition to the base AA, and its the base AA who needs the some rework and the Motion Blur.

                              - The AA give material quality problems (Blur) and in the general image.
                              - The Motion Blur give problems too in the sides of the models.

                              And will be nice to see here some post process effects like:

                              - Alpha To Coverage
                              - Sharpen - Blur filter: https://answers.unrealengine.com/que...t-process.html lost in the mind
                              - Resolution scale up to 200% https://answers.unrealengine.com/que...up-to-200.html without replies
                              Last edited by Hevedy; 05-11-2015, 05:37 PM.
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