Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

(VIDEO) UE4's Geometry Mode is inadequate when compared with that of Quake 1

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • replied
    Sure, again I don't care if it's bsp or mesh if ultimately quicker cleaner geometry creation is achieved.
    I don't care so much for the "ancient" argument though to not use BSP. It's purely about functionality; if it works, it works. If it works quicker, then that's what I'll use.
    Drawcalls/performance is a non-issue for BSP nowadays (especially since it's purely for blocking out primitive shapes in primitive scenes and not for the final product).

    Do static meshes have these capabilities? Because if so, I'd drop BSP in a heart beat:
    • non-destructive booleans (i.e. testing window shapes, doors, tunnels, rooms cut into a block building)
    • deformation (i.e. testing the building silhouette, welding a cube into a pyramid, cutting the building in half)
    • quick specific shapes (i.e. checking if an archway ruins the composition of a setting)
    It's really useful when you dont need to constantly swap into a modeling program + export out a new FBX for every idea you want to test.
    Last edited by JiggyWatt; 03-07-2020, 12:06 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    JiggyWatt
    Yeah, this kind of tool is crazy useful for LD
    It's just that BSP tech in the ancient thing, i.e. if you'd make stairs every face would have to material assigned separately - tedious to work and generating a lot of draw calls probably... Improving BSP seems to be a "quick fix", but it could much better to replace it with a new generation of tools.

    The better direction for the future could be either:
    - New modeling tools having all features for quickly creating blockouts: features from BPS, Hammer and whatever you're missing. Produced meshes would be more efficient and easier to "expand", i.e. occasional adding complex geometry or sculpt to show "hey, artists, I would love to have such custom mesh here, replace this quick sketch with a proper prop".
    - Pleasant integration with Blender on which Epic is working now. It should be relatively easy for "BSP artist" to learn basic of Blender. And with their new plugin, you can instantly import meshes to the editor and map. Obviously, the question is: would it be convenient to create every unique LD part from Blender while working on blockout? Probably not that much, but... complex maps often are much better if you finite set of modular blocks for most of the map instead of unique BSP for a square meter of the level.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by Moth Doctor View Post
    JiggyWatt
    The new "geometry tools" are about mesh modeling and sculpting. It's not about upgrading BSP meant for making box-like levels.
    I don't think I've ever seen geo tools used for mesh modeling and sculpting. Geo tools/bsp (as far as I know) have always been used for "box-like levels" to get a sense of proportions and composition. I feel silly citing documentation but BSP's usefulness is pretty obvious for prototyping:

    I still really like UE4's geometry editing. Vertex snapping, non-destructive booleans, the pen/lathe are all fantastic features.
    For a tool as popular as UE4 though, I just think some users, particularly level designers, world builders, and 3d artists would benefit from a bit more options or slight quality-of-life improvements in the geometry creation:
    Click image for larger version

Name:	test.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	357.5 KB
ID:	1729612

    If I'm wrong on any of these, any corrections would be appreciated. For all I know, maybe I'm just bad at UE4 and there's correct/better techniques I'm unwary of.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    JiggyWatt
    The new "geometry tools" are about mesh modeling and sculpting. It's not about upgrading BSP meant for making box-like levels.
    Hopefully, new tools would make it easy and efficient to edit blockouts and BSP gonna be finally removed from the engine

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    6 years later in 2020, what happened to this whole effort for better geometry tools? Did it just die out?

    BSP still has great utility for block outs and earlier stages of development, especially for planning modular assets, so I'm somewhat shocked at how almost no progress in geometry building has been made since, and users have to rely on 3rd party content like SuperGrid:


    The common thread of Hammeur/hammer, supergrid, probuilder, etc. is that they're very conducive at snapping geometry flush to the grid.
    Meanwhile, this is Unreal's own tutorial struggling just to get a wall to align properly (~6:40):


    JoeWintergreen If you read this (or anyone else in the same boat), I was curious what your workflow is like nowadays for block outs.
    Last edited by JiggyWatt; 03-03-2020, 03:49 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Some interesting progress here: https://twitter.com/ozmant/status/840729262911025152

    I hope it will become a plugin for Marketplace!

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Thanks for hooking us up Matt!

    Here's my first impressions vid thing if anyone wants to see what's up

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    For the record, as many have guessed, these are not complete tools. This is an experimental, very early access look at some of the initial features of new geometry editing tools. It is highly likely to have significant changes over time and the UI will certainly be completely different. We wanted everyone to get a chance to see it though so you get an idea of where we are at with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by AE_3DFX View Post
    Hevedy: What what where?? dont give me heart attack... is it true????
    I have to say overall looks like the Cryengine tools but probably missing things but are too complete.
    THE MAIN PROBLEM: are not focus for 2D edit as should be, the idea of BSP is a fast workflow in 2D and don't even need select the faces just drag and scale etc, so right now is not usable at all. Plus this since is in dev drop crashes.

    Resume: Lots of tools and that but aim to the 3D viewport edit, should aim 2D viewport and way faster workflow with a proper control of sizes.

    I just expect Epic Games just listen us now to improve this tools.

    You can download here: https://github.com/EpicGames/UnrealE...e/dev-geometry

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Epic have obviously been working on this for ages and haven't rushed it out :P

    I've just made an impressions vid of the new tools, should be up tonight, upload speed permitting

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    I, as a learner of worlds creation this out of box "Geo 2.0" like feature is a godsend feature to me without fuzzing with external 3rd-party addons. EPIC, my greatest thanks.

    This thread has served its positive purpose.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    There are 2 solutions in work, one is literally mesh editor that can edit static meshes and one is like Hammer level editor. I don't know why Epic suddenly decided to rush this out. Could have paid those guys to get their plugins finished and polished.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Finally, i am so relived that native out of box solution arrives, death to BSP.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by Hevedy View Post
    THANKS EPIC GAMES FINALLY ADDED


    Is that UI for real? lol It looks like it was made in a hurry, is this a plugin?

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Originally posted by AE_3DFX View Post
    Hevedy: What what where?? dont give me heart attack... is it true????
    Yes they showed it off as part of the GDC 2017 presentation

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X