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(VIDEO) UE4's Geometry Mode is inadequate when compared with that of Quake 1

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    Originally posted by motorsep View Post
    Saw that too, but considering how road map works I am a bit reserved about those estimates.
    Atleast we know they are working on it now

    Comment


      Atleast we know they are working on it now
      No matter with what they will come up with ... Im probably not gonna use it.
      Reason is simple: It cant possibly beat MODO (or max, mayer, etc for that matter).
      For rough blocking, the current BSP system is good enough as it is. For anything beyond, I go with the foundry...

      I hope Epic does not divert too much resources into this.

      Comment


        The UMG editor of Unreal at the moment is just horrendous to work with, I find it to be fiddly and time consuming... Why don't you guys at Epic just add drag and drop support features for the blueprints for this editor. The UMG editor should beable to just drag out images and drop them straight unto the canvas itself, not just have to do it through a texture slot menus just to get the picture to show up on the canvas

        There should've been also some dialog window huds examples put in the editor and also pre-made transparent hud screens for those making space games.. There should've been more resources instead of stripping the engine down to the very bare essentials.

        And the UMG text system having a key encryption makes no sense to me. Why do you need a key encryption code for typing text in the hud?

        You should beable to just drag any image from the content browser and just dump it straight onto the UMG canvas but it looks like you have to go through a slot menu first to get it to show up on the canvas, more unnecessary mouse clicking.

        Your blueprint system seems to be only half complete. There should be NODE GROUP COMPONENTS not just only the ability to build components up from separate nodes. There should be customized node groups so you can assemble common blueprint components quickly without having to rebuild the code all from scratch so you can have a pre-made group library of these basic components and can customize the variables Oh that would be nice..

        The Engine should've also come with Behavior Tree Examples to show us, it should've come with examples of the blackboard system.
        it should've come with more examples resources than what it was packed up with.

        They broke people's material shaders and projects because they had removed the old blueprint and material nodes, when they
        should've left the old nodes intact. But the old stuff won't work.

        UDK has got more pins than Unreal 4 on its main material node.. UDK has the following pins: Diffuse, Diffusepower, Emissive, Specular, Specular Power, Opacity, Distortion, Transmission Mask, Transmission Color, Normal. Customlighting, AristotropicDirection, Worldpositionoffset, World Displacement, Tesselation Factors, Subsurfacescattering Color, SubsurfaceAbsorptionColor, SubsurfaceScatteringRadius.

        And Unreal 4 master node only has these pins: Base Color, Metallic, Specular, Emissive Color, Opacity, Opacity Mask, Normal, World Position Offset, World Displacement, Tessellation Multiples, Subsurface Color, Ambient Ocllusion, Refraction.

        Huge major difference missing pins..... as a result because half of these pins were missing off the main master node, I couldn't build
        the ocean shader from UDK into Unreal 4.

        You should beable to just drag out any object from the editor viewport window like the matinee flim strip actor and just drag it straight
        into the blueprints window and it turns automatically into a blueprint node for blueprints to connect to it. Just like how your material editor does
        the same thing with dragging textures out from the content browser.

        Because your Engine has got a problem with the Matinee actor not always showing up in blueprints nodes list when its been selected and you can't drag it straight into the blueprint window either if it dont'show up in the main node list, because for the matinee actor does not always show up, don't know why. This is about as frustrating as that other bug with the Fade Effect for Matinee...

        Why do you have a big long list of Text Descriptions of all the NODES without having a small PREVIEW WINDOW on the palette list
        so we can see at a glance what the nodes LOOK like that we are scrolling through to find? For some of these nodes are under
        similar names, but different color codes and this can be a bit confusing and time consuming to try to hunt the node down in the list
        when there's no Graphical Preview for us to see as we scrolling DOWN THE LIST which node we need to find.

        And If you don't know the name of the node but know what it looks like, then well, you have to go through the list. BECAUSE EPIC has
        got no Index list to refer to show all the node names along with their blueprint images.

        The Blueprint pallete list has no preview picture of the node so you can associate the node name with the node.
        its just only a big long text list of names that you scroll through and hope you click on the right one.
        But you don't know that until it pops up on the screen if its the right one or not, which means, having to
        rummaging through the list trying to find it as there's no preview picture showing you the node. Or I couldn't find the option to show
        node previews.

        Unreal is slow and its because of poor navigation layout and lack of visuality on certain menus.. It needs a much faster way of doing things, because the
        way it is now, its just slow with the current layout. I DO think the graphics are pretty with both what the engine can do
        and with the user interfaces.
        Last edited by tozan; 09-21-2016, 10:01 PM.

        Comment


          Originally posted by tozan View Post
          ~ Snip ~
          Ummmm - Wrong Post bro.

          Comment


            Originally posted by KVogler View Post
            No matter with what they will come up with ... Im probably not gonna use it.
            Reason is simple: It cant possibly beat MODO (or max, mayer, etc for that matter).
            For rough blocking, the current BSP system is good enough as it is. For anything beyond, I go with the foundry...

            I hope Epic does not divert too much resources into this.
            That's your uneducated opinion. Apparently you never worked with BSP outside of Unreal.

            Comment


              That's your uneducated opinion. Apparently you never worked with BSP outside of Unreal.
              Right. Thats my opinion.
              However, I dont think you are qualified to judge my work.
              Appearently you have never worked with modo
              Perhaps you should stay a bit more professional.

              Comment


                Let me show you a video that resume all my needs


                *Not my video, credits to the author https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrm...swRG22arhdAneQ

                - Material Picker. https://youtu.be/70GO2mL_xMU?t=257
                - Extrude, Vertex Edit, Plane and Sub Divided meshes etc etc https://youtu.be/70GO2mL_xMU?t=454
                - And fast workflow.
                Last edited by Hevedy; 09-20-2016, 07:29 AM.
                Hevedy - Instance Tools: https://hevedy.itch.io/hevedyinstances
                Hevedy - Image Tools: https://hevedy.itch.io/imagetools

                Comment


                  Originally posted by KVogler View Post
                  Right. Thats my opinion.
                  Uneducated opinion.

                  Originally posted by KVogler View Post
                  However, I dont think you are qualified to judge my work.
                  I am qualified to judge your lack of understanding of CSG level design techniques and why it still matters in XXI century.

                  Originally posted by KVogler View Post
                  Appearently you have never worked with modo
                  No, but I worked in MAX and I've been using Blender continuously for the past many years. Blender's modeling tools are not as advanced as MODO's, but as close as it gets.

                  Originally posted by KVogler View Post
                  Perhaps you should stay a bit more professional.
                  Does being professional mean agreeing with everything and not speaking up my mind, especially when I have experience to back it up?

                  Comment


                    Uneducated opinion.
                    You are just childish.
                    By the way: thats what I call unprofessional.
                    Making judgement and assumptions about other people's abilities without even knowing them.

                    I am qualified to judge your lack of understanding of CSG level design techniques and why it still matters in XXI century.
                    Oh, I do understand the concept for CSG/BSP. And I use it quite often. Just not in Unreal.
                    So yeah, if Epic pulls it off that their CSG system beats MeshFusion, then I gladly use it.
                    But somehow I doubt that.

                    Does being professional mean agreeing with everything and not speaking up my mind
                    So Im only professional if I agree qwith yoy??
                    Remeber, speaking up my mind was all I did...

                    You are a funny guy

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by KVogler View Post
                      You are a funny guy


                      But really, MODO is not free nor cheap. (Indie) level designers need to be able to build levels (and not just blockouts) when there are no models or artists on the team. Can't beat good CSG when it comes to workflow (especially texturing) and speed. Also no need to export/import assets - it's all done in the Editor, which speeds up workflow even more.

                      Check out this guy: http://www.simonoc.com/ It's all CSG.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by KVogler View Post
                        No matter with what they will come up with ... Im probably not gonna use it.
                        Reason is simple: It cant possibly beat MODO (or max, mayer, etc for that matter).
                        For rough blocking, the current BSP system is good enough as it is. For anything beyond, I go with the foundry...

                        I hope Epic does not divert too much resources into this.
                        I'm sorry, but I gotta disagree here. The point of a pseudo-CSG system is not to replace modelling tools - both in mine and many other peoples' opinions, they serve pretty different roles in the pipeline. Unreal's geometry tools don't need to rival Modo or any dedicated 3D package - They just need to be able to let level designers work on basic level geometry in-engine, and do so quickly and intuitively. If Unreal's current geometry tools are good enough for you as-is, then that's great, but IMO Joe goes over some pretty empirical reasons why they're currently not up-to-scratch in his original video. I'd also argue that they're a terrible idea as part of any production pipeline, other than 'replace with static meshes later', as they're a huge performance hog.

                        There are loads of other reasons why IMO UE4 still needs some good geometry tools - I happen to be one of the people that feel level design has taken a real retrograde step in terms of complexity as a result of the industry favouring a purely mesh-based approach. I'd also argue that using a full modelling package to model game geometry entirely separately from the game is a crazy idea in terms of good workflow. And finally, Max, Maya, and basically every 3D package out there save Blender are prohibitively expensive if all you want to focus on is level design - it's kind of analogous to buying a Swiss army knife when all you want to do is cut some paper.

                        Again, by all means, if doing most of your level work in Modo works for you, then that's great, but there is demand for better in-engine geometry tools for good reason.

                        Comment


                          And finally, Max, Maya, and basically every 3D package out there save Blender are prohibitively expensive
                          Depends. In the case of autodesk for sure. That was one of the reasons I abandoned max and switched to modo which is quite affordable.

                          http://store.steampowered.com/sub/91036/
                          With this deal you also get MARI, a real good texturing and painting tool. (Like substance, just better)

                          If that is prohibitively expensive, I honestly wonder how people can afford the hardware....

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by KVogler View Post
                            Depends. In the case of autodesk for sure. That was one of the reasons I abandoned max and switched to modo which is quite affordable.

                            http://store.steampowered.com/sub/91036/
                            With this deal you also get MARI, a real good texturing and painting tool. (Like substance, just better)

                            If that is prohibitively expensive, I honestly wonder how people can afford the hardware....
                            Modo Indie is absurdly prohibitive in terms of both licensing and interoperability. Exporting in any kind of UE-readable format is limited to 7k polys, which essentially renders it borderline useless for level design. Also, it's strictly limited to non-commercial use outside of Steam Workshop, so it's a non-option for anybody looking to release a UE game commercially. Sure, if you plan to release a free game that has a relatively modest art style, then I'm sure it's a great option for the price, but that's not exactly a huge variety of use-cases.

                            Comment


                              Exporting in any kind of UE-readable format is limited to 7k polys
                              When did you last check?
                              The limit for the indie version is 100k polys.
                              And with the new game tools, introduced in modo10, exporting to UE is even easier than ever.
                              If you like you can even PIE the scene in modo. So you dont even have to switch to UE to see "how it looks"...

                              Comment


                                Hey, no, that's the first I saw of them updating the export limit. That's pretty cool. Having a play-in-editor deal is pretty nifty, too. I don't see anything about them updating their terms-of-use to allow for commercial usage outside of Steam Workshop though, which is still going to be a deal-breaker for a lot of folks. Do correct me if I'm wrong regarding that, too.

                                Comment

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