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[Essential Missing Feature] We need option to always "Show Advanced Details!"

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    [Essential Missing Feature] We need option to always "Show Advanced Details!"

    Dear Epic,

    As of 4.5 you can't even see the option to import Morph Targets unless you know to click on the "Show Advanced Details" button!

    But this has the effect of making it seem to even new users that UE4's importing options are very limited!

    This has the opposite effect of making the FBX importer easier to use, it makes even new users who want to import morph targeting have to somehow know that there is this thing called "Show Advanced Details!"

    This actually goes against your goal of simplifying the new user experience.


    And for users like me it endlessly frustrates me that I can't always see all the options that are available to me, and forces me to do extra clicks each time I want to see those essential additional options!

    ~~~

    Essential Missing Feature

    Please add to Editor Preferences an option to "Always Show Advanced Details"

    It endlessly bothers me when I am looking for an option that I just saw 10 minutes ago and now can't find it.... until I remember to turn on Show Advanced Details.

    The browser doesn't properly record the fact that I turned on Advanced Details after I close that panel, and so when I come back 10 min later all my extra options are gone, the very options I was busy tweaking.


    And for new users that dont know this magic trick called

    1. click on that eye thing

    2. select show advanced details


    The end result is that they either think the engine is limited or they are in the wrong menu, neither of which are true

    Please stop trying to simplify in a way where I as a familiar user have no option but to deal with this extra restrictiveness that greatly interrupts my workflow


    See pic for details

    Click image for larger version

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    Rama
    Last edited by Rama; 10-17-2014, 06:00 AM.
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    #2
    +1

    It is also not helping the new users. I ran into situations where the user couldnt find the option i suggested because they didnt have advanced details open or didnt know how to show them.
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    Comment


      #3
      I believe that some tier system would be helpful (and useful) like for example:
      Go to settings, select profile:
      -Novice
      -Intermediate
      -Expert
      -Custom

      Obviously Novice would have only the most basic options visible etc etc.

      But unfortunately, I am of the opinion that there still must lots and lots of water pass under the bridge until the UI will be solid and established. UE4 is still in rough waters. But it will get better.

      Comment


        #4
        read this thread this afternoon, didnt really think any more of it, its now way past my bedtime and just now, almost by accident, found the little eye button
        wow there are loads more options, things that are actually important!

        +1
        i agree, thats just silly and unnecessary.
        tegleg.co.uk - indie electronic music label
        Android + HTML5 WIP Physics Game
        PC Games - Android Apps

        Comment


          #5
          finding setting & features can be tricky, especially when often, there is no step by step to get to certain settings like you find in many software, & some of the settings are very deep, & located in places that may not be clear.
          Once, I was looking for how to change the AO setting. I go to documentation, it read along the line of you can change AO settings, proceed to show all the available setting, even some nice pictures. The only thing it did not say is where the AO settings are located!

          Don't believe, just see here.
          https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest...ion/index.html

          Epic expect people to know AO settings are inside here? I challenge Epic to find new users, & only via the documentations (& play around the UI), to see if how many can find the AO settings within 1 hour.

          Click image for larger version

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          The drama can be resolved by just having these lines at beginning of the AO page

          AO settings are located by these steps.
          1) Go to the settings icon (by default located on center top of screen), & pick world settings in the drop down menu.
          2) The world setting tab will open (by default on right of screen), go under lightmass tab, under Lightmass setting, expand the arrow ,
          3) the AO settings are located inside.


          I give a typical example. This is how its done in other program

          Apply strikethrough formatting in word.

          Select the text that you want to change.
          On the Format menu, click Font, and then click the Font tab.
          Select the Strikethrough or Double strikethrough check box.


          An equivalent in UE4 will be

          You can apply a strikethrough in a text by selecting a strikethrough in the check box.
          Last edited by starseeker; 10-18-2014, 08:48 AM.
          Check my working title: The Locked Room here: https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...he-locked-Room

          Comment


            #6
            +1 .

            And some nonsense here to get me past the 10 character min limit.

            What if we had a 'Thanks' option on posts to help show support for requests?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by starseeker View Post
              finding setting & features can be tricky, especially when often, there is no step by step to get to certain settings like you find in many software, & some of the settings are very deep, & located in places that may not be clear.
              Once, I was looking for how to change the AO setting. I go to documentation, it read along the line of you can change AO settings, proceed to show all the available setting, even some nice pictures. The only thing it did not say is where the AO settings are located!

              Don't believe, just see here.
              https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest...ion/index.html

              Epic expect people to know AO settings are inside here?

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]14525[/ATTACH]


              I give a typical example. This is how its done in other program

              Apply strikethrough formatting in word.

              Select the text that you want to change.
              On the Format menu, click Font, and then click the Font tab.
              Select the Strikethrough or Double strikethrough check box.


              An equivalent in UE4 will be

              You can apply a strikethrough in a text by selecting a strikethrough in the check box.
              I apologize if there are aspects of the documentation that aren't clear or detailed enough. Our intention is always to explain everything thoroughly and clearly; however, we err on the side of releasing information as soon as possible and not everything is initially written by someone on the documentation team, which means it often does not have time to be reviewed before it ends up in your hands. I take full responsibility for that.

              I have already started taking steps to try to improve this going forward. If you come across instances where you feel we could improve the documentation, please don't hesitate to let me know (jeff.wilson@epicgames.com).
              Unreal Engine Documentation
              Bored? Follow me! @ffejnosliw

              Comment


                #8
                +1 Rama!

                Totally agreeing with you here.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jeff Wilson View Post
                  I apologize if there are aspects of the documentation that aren't clear or detailed enough. Our intention is always to explain everything thoroughly and clearly; however, we err on the side of releasing information as soon as possible and not everything is initially written by someone on the documentation team, which means it often does not have time to be reviewed before it ends up in your hands. I take full responsibility for that.

                  I have already started taking steps to try to improve this going forward. If you come across instances where you feel we could improve the documentation, please don't hesitate to let me know (jeff.wilson@epicgames.com).
                  Sure. Which is why I posted here.
                  Check my working title: The Locked Room here: https://forums.unrealengine.com/show...he-locked-Room

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by reok View Post
                    +1 Rama!

                    Totally agreeing with you here.
                    Originally posted by tegleg View Post
                    read this thread this afternoon, didnt really think any more of it, its now way past my bedtime and just now, almost by accident, found the little eye button

                    wow there are loads more options, things that are actually important!
                    Originally posted by Jacky View Post
                    +1

                    It is also not helping the new users. I ran into situations where the user couldnt find the option i suggested because they didnt have advanced details open or didnt know how to show them.

                    Great to hear from you Reok and Jacky and Jimmy and SmallB and Tegleg and Starseeker!

                    And lovely to hear from you too Jeff Wilson, thanks for all your help!

                    Epic please dearly consider the fact that not everyone is going to go read documentation, especially if they expect that if an option exists, it will be visible to them without them having to magically know to click on that eye and see suddenly a whole new editor is revealed to them.

                    Why are you nerfing the editor for new users who will likely never find out that a certain option exists unless they go hunting through written documentation which is not really people's favorite thing to do these days?

                    At the very lease I earnestly request that you allow me and other users who want to see all the options, all the time, to be able to do so!

                    You have considered the perspective of the new user, would you please consider my perspective, and the fact that I really cant stand not knowing what my options are?

                    Do I have to go click on that eye in every single UI panel to even have clue what is available to me?


                    Please Epic, not everyone learns thru reading documention, I for one have never read any documentation for any software I use, unless I am really totally stuck on something. I just figure it out by clicking on stuff and seeing what happens. But I will never know to click on something if its not even there (unless I show all advanced details for every single panel I open).

                    If you add a new feature and hide it from me as an advanced detail and the docs team hasnt written the docs I never read anyway, how do you expect me to ever find it?

                    I am of a generation that learns more visually than thru the written word, and I just click on stuff and try things out, and so you need to consider my learning style.


                    If you dont give me the buttons to click on to try stuff, and hide it from me, I'm never even going to know its there!

                    ~~~

                    My Actual Requested Feature

                    Please, its not that hard, it doesnt require any immediate changes to your overall choices that you've made so far regarding editor UI complexity, just give me this option:

                    Editor Settings-> Always Show Advanced Details


                    I want the option to always see the fullness of the Editor I have chosen to make a part of my daily life

                    Please consider your experienced users, the ones who actually use your editor daily, we deserve your attention too and options that are geared for our needs, such as always being to see what the full power of the Editor is!



                    Rama
                    Last edited by Rama; 10-19-2014, 12:13 AM.
                    100+ UE4 C++ Tutorials on the UE4 Code Wiki, including UE4 Multi-Threading!

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                    Visit www.ue4code.com to see lots of videos about my C++ Creations! ♥ Rama

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I don't even remember ever clicking that "eye" icon so I know I was missing out of a lot of stuff!

                      So +1 for me as well!


                      A simple "Show Advanced Options" in a main preference setting should be enough I'd imagine...


                      -Will

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hi guys,

                        Sorry you're having some trouble with the new UI. Unfortunately the "Show all Advanced" option isn't saved as it's more of a runtime filter, however if you want the advanced sections to stay open there is a way to do that.

                        Click image for larger version

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                        Clicking the arrow highlighted in the image above will save a flag for that category so it should always appear open. Simply do this for all of the categories you are interested in on the FBX UI and they should always open up as you'd expect.

                        Hopefully this helps.

                        Benn.
                        Animation and Physics Programmer, UE4, Epic Games

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Exelcior View Post
                          Hi guys,

                          Sorry you're having some trouble with the new UI. Unfortunately the "Show all Advanced" option isn't saved as it's more of a runtime filter, however if you want the advanced sections to stay open there is a way to do that.

                          [ATTACH=CONFIG]14808[/ATTACH]

                          Clicking the arrow highlighted in the image above will save a flag for that category so it should always appear open. Simply do this for all of the categories you are interested in on the FBX UI and they should always open up as you'd expect.

                          Hopefully this helps.

                          Benn.
                          Thanks for the info Benn, and nice forum name by the way

                          I can verify that yes click the arrows does save.

                          However requiring your users to know this somehow magically and do it as an additional step to acccess engine-essential features like the ability to import morph targets I still think is counterproductive to your goal of making the UI easier

                          Perhaps you need to just let people see their options and digest them over time?

                          People are not dumb! you dont need to treat them this way, they can handle seeing their options.

                          If you treat people like they can't handle seeing all these options and try to dumb do the UI for just them you risk dumbing down the engine itself.

                          Why not let UE4 be its own Glorious Self and let people rise up to meet UE4, rather than lower UE4 to a minority of users who never stay as beginners for long...

                          but only if they learn what those little arrows mean will they ever know what their options ever were, as they are trying to learn UE4 and grow to meet UE4 in its full Power!

                          Let people train with the Editor, and adapt to the Editor

                          rather than forcing all the rest of us to deal with your attempts to dumb down the Editor, which is just an incredible inconvenience to anyone who has used UE4 for more than a week.

                          Rama
                          100+ UE4 C++ Tutorials on the UE4 Code Wiki, including UE4 Multi-Threading!

                          UE4 Marketplace: Melee Weapon Plugin & Compressed Binary Save System Plugin | Rama's C++ AI Jumping Videos | Vertex Snap Editor Plugin

                          Visit www.ue4code.com to see lots of videos about my C++ Creations! ♥ Rama

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Request for 4.6

                            Any chance of a simple option to auto expand all of those arrows, or some simple button to keep all the full power of the Engine visible?

                            I just spoke with very experienced UE4 programmer who has been using the editor for months now and he had no idea that eye thing was even there and all the additional options that were being hidden from him!

                            You are effectively hiding stuff from experienced UE4 users without meaning to and not letting them know about or have access to all the hard work that UE4 engineers are putting into these hidden features!

                            Rama
                            100+ UE4 C++ Tutorials on the UE4 Code Wiki, including UE4 Multi-Threading!

                            UE4 Marketplace: Melee Weapon Plugin & Compressed Binary Save System Plugin | Rama's C++ AI Jumping Videos | Vertex Snap Editor Plugin

                            Visit www.ue4code.com to see lots of videos about my C++ Creations! ♥ Rama

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Clicking on the eye?! But... but.. Finger in the eye hurts :O
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