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New Sky/Atmosphere model in 4.24

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  • replied
    Originally posted by SebHillaire View Post
    Rawalanche if you meant left CTRL key, then yes that is not the intended use case. You do not have any right CTRL key on your keyboard?
    I do, but that's not how the muscle memory works. This is the first time I tried to use right Ctrl key in probably over a decade. I am willing to bet that the vast majority of people work with software by having one hand on the keyboard and other on the mouse. Of course that changes often, when you switch to typing text for example, but generally not otherwise. Your hand resides in leftmost area of the keyboard, assuming one is right handed. Here it makes all the less sense given that you actually need to interact with the mouse at the very same time.

    So it becomes matter of using left Ctrl for every single software as well as every single other hotkey operation in UE4, and using right Ctrl just for this one specific hotkey in this one software

    In any other case, if there's a Ctrl key combo with the key being far from right Ctrl, I'd usually just take my other hand off the mouse to press it, Ctrl+P being an example. Not a big deal. I guess what's so incredibly jarring here is that you can't really do it here as the other hand needs to remain on the mouse to orient the light direction.
    Last edited by Rawalanche; 05-08-2020, 06:13 AM.

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  • replied
    Rawalanche if you meant left CTRL key, then yes that is not the intended use case. You do not have any right CTRL key on your keyboard?

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  • replied




    new sky in 426 , look great!

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  • replied
    I am quite worried about usability. Unreal's keyboard shortcut mapping was never very strong, but skylight gizmo takes this to a whole new level. Ctrl and L keys are about 20 centimeters from each other on an average keyboard, making them borderline impossible to press at once with one hand. At the very same time, the light direction gizmo can NOT be operated using the mouse without the combination pressed together, so it's absolutely necessary to press those extremely distant buttons together using just one hand, and keep the hand in this very uncomfortable position during the manipulation.

    This really needs to be done better. Right now, it's a bit of UX failure
    Last edited by Rawalanche; 05-08-2020, 04:00 AM.

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  • replied
    AMEN to that, too much confusion indeed, so we should use one over the other NOW ? Anyway , I am using Dynamic lights, takes too long to compile static till I upgrade a little, BUT as player moves, or even as camera moves, I get these nasty circular ( I guess) shadows to move along as player does.how does one REMOVE those, they are a real realism killer, and ya I have a world comp world 4 tiles (atm) just to verify this is on topic and I"m using Sun & Sky .

    Thx

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  • replied
    Originally posted by SebHillaire View Post
    Hello Alakuloinen ,
    A few answers:
    • AtmosphericFog will simply be removed at some point.
    Looking forward to that. It will hopefully remove tons of ambiguity and confusion. Right now, there are just too many wrong combinations possible

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  • replied
    Hello Alakuloinen ,
    A few answers:
    • AtmosphericFog will simply be removed at some point.
    • Shader complexity: instruction count doe not do everything: texture fetch, scheduling and more also influence performance. You have to measure the actual GPU performance for your use case. usually the sky is not full screen and when it is, a lot of the world is not visible so it balances. There is also some smart pixel work culling happening on GPU. Cost of the sky is usually tiny as compared to the rest. Fortnite has very complex sky and has shipped on ps4, xb1, switch and mobile, some of them being at 60fps.
    • Dark evenings: SkyAtmosphere can render beautiful evening with blue sky even when the sun is way below the horizon at sunset. Just make sure you have an exposure setup to see something. If it is too dark you can do the following: add a moon because on earth it is a high contributor at night. You can also use the more expensive (just a bit more) but more accurate multiple scattering evaluation by setting r.SkyAtmosphere.MultiScatteringLUT.HighQuality 1 (just noticed a name error in the documentation, we will fix).
    Last edited by SebHillaire; 05-06-2020, 02:55 AM.

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  • replied
    Hey there. Concerning relations between the new Sky Atmosphere and the old Atmospheric Fog...

    Firstly, what is the fate of the latter, will it be removed, supported independently, or somehow merged with Sky Atmosphere in the future? I am using Atmospheric Fog, I'm not satisfied with all colors it makes, especially too dark evenings (the sky must be still blue right after sunset, not black or grey with a greenish tint) but I would be upset if it's gone.

    Secondly, I'm a bit worried about performance of Sky Atmosphere compared to Atmospheric Fog. I am using Atmospheric Fog with stars skydome and at least two layers of translucent cloud meshes (cumulus/cirrus). My clouds shader is lightweight enough, even multiple cloud layers yield dark green shader complexity. But if I use Sky Atmosphere expressions with materials, numbers of instructions dramatically rise. Just a blue skydome with custom clouds, but shaders go dark red, while the colors are hardly better, and evenings are still too dark. Even the example material with poor 90x-games-like cirrus clouds has as much as 296 ps instructions! I really don't understand why I need this all, so the first question is more important.

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  • replied
    4.25 Preview 3 installs for me, in case anyone on this thread wanted an update.

    Nice to see the atmosphere now renders behind the moon and not in front of it

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  • replied
    tc22
    Tried last night. Won't install for me.

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  • replied
    anyone test 4.25?

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  • replied
    SebHillaire To be specific, I've narrowed it down to the one render command, r.SkyAtmosphere.AerialPerspective.StartDepth
    It seems values between 10 - 100 give a cleaner look (the look you see in my last images). If I put a value of 1, it gives the look I initially see (or if I close and reopen the project).
    I'm finding a value of 100 crushes a bit of the transition area between the light/dark side so I'm playing with values between 10 - 75 currently.

    I'll post more soon.

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  • replied
    GTJC Ok then. I am surprised the AP commands improves the result in this case.

    Z0DI4C.2.0 You do not have to use the sky dome shader with IsSkyTicked. That is only if you want to render a sky dome (with custom composition of clouds, planet and whatnot) as unlit opaque while not having the aerial perspective (atmosphere fog) apply on it again.

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  • replied
    SebHillaire thank you for adding it to the to-investigate list. I was overseas for work and am back now to continue my digging.
    It's apparent I have not played with many of the rendering commands in Unreal in general nor in relation to the Sky Atmosphere node.

    Playing with the r.SkyAtmosphere.AerialPerspective.StartDepth and r.SkyAtmosphere.SampleCountMax is cleaning up a bit of the noise, not completely gone but definitely cleaner:
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    I'll keep playing with the rendering values and settings and see how much I can clean up the atmosphere. Thank you for your feedback.

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  • replied
    Hi all, I have a noob question, do I have to use a skydome at all? Because for new Sun Sky plugin it seems like I don't have to (at least from visual perspective). I have volumetric clouds in the scene and I'm blending different cubemaps based on day time. I'm also planning to mix one extra cubemap for overcast. But if I had no specified cubemaps there would skybox be required for captured skylight?

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